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our government's official policy

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is one of disinterest when it comes to

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civilian

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sightings of ufos then why

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does it devote taxpayer dollars to fund

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the world's biggest search for

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intelligent

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extraterrestrial life on today's show

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we are going to delve deeply into the

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book

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from

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if you don't know terry lovelace you

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must be living under a rock

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because wow have we got an amazing

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[Music]

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come blast off in my time machine third

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eye feeling like a knee vision blast off

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blast off blast off glassed off

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come blast off in my time machine third

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eye feeling like an

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out eva off blast off

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blast off blast off

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on another vip episode of hero

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paranormal podcast thanks to all the

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patrons

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tonight broadcasting from

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somewhere in the uintah basin of utah my

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name is ryan the original

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outlaw of the airwaves bringing you well

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as crazy and as good of an episode as

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you can imagine

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and terry lovelace is

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one of my favorite guests we

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have had him on before a lot of people

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well we have one of ufology's most

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amazing cases here

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and that's what we're going to focus on

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today he's been on before with any luck

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he will be on again terry lovelace is

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going

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reckoning

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a second part to devil's den the book

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series

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if you haven't looked into this or

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purchased it

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come on just do it i

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love love the book series and terry has

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such a good writing style

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terry's most recently been on a number

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of recent

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amazing radio shows including coast to

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coast one of my personal favorites

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a true story of his with compelling

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proof of alien

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visitation alleged government

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involvement

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well and an alien implant discovered on

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a routine x-ray

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it's that cool if you haven't been over

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to heroparanormal.com definitely check

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out uh

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the last show terry was on and

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it was a very good show i think this

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one's going to be

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even better terry is a six-year veteran

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of the united states

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air force he has a bachelor's degree in

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psychology and a law degree from western

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michigan

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his legal career began in private

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practice until his appointment as an

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assistant attorney general for the u.s

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territory of american samoa he also

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served

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as an assistant attorney general for the

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state of vermont until his 2012

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retirement

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he and a friend were abducted

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from devil's den state park in northwest

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arkansas in june 1977

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while they were both on active duty for

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fear of losing his job

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and the respect of his peers in the

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legal community especially

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he waited until 2018 to publish incident

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at

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devil's den a number one best seller on

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amazon with

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460 plus reviews

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his second book devil's then the

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reckoning

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was just published the week of christmas

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2020 so here we go it was

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number one in new releases and is

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selling well at the moment

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since march 2018 he's been a guest

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with myself george knapp george nori

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linda moulton howe etc he's spoken at

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ufo congress contact in the desert

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roswell and is a speaker at the ozark

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digital conference

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that is set for april 2021. his story

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was featured on a travel channel episode

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of my horror story

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which was originally aired november 2019

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so these are all recent

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dates big things happening with devil's

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den the reckoning

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and terry lovelace i can't be more

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excited to have him on again and i'm

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stoked and very honored

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mr terry lovelace one of my heroes it's

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been just

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four months since we've spoken and

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uh i can't wait to speak again how have

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you been and welcome to the hero

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paranormal

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podcast my man seven zero nine

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five terry are you there terry your

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keychain

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uh i got a mac are you mac user

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yeah i'm a mac user and it's interesting

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you mentioned that because i got a

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strange

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error message that was kind of trying to

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import something that started with live

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and i'd said oh heck no

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so that's weird man serious technical

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issues crazy

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yeah crazy i was on dig this i was on

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with uh

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whitley strieger uh last

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last tuesday a week ago today i think

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yeah

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and uh he was doing a i did a podcast

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for him it's going to air like the 29th

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and uh we had this bizarre

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uh whining noise

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that just uh really screwed it was bad

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and i thought you know maybe my uh maybe

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i got a problem with my microphone or

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something

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so we ended up switching from uh my mac

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over to my iphone

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and uh we went things went fine for

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about five minutes and then the noise

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came back

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so uh we just kind of pushed through and

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did the best we could do

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you know and did an extra half an hour

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so we try to

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pass something together yeah and he sent

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it to a sound engineer

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i could show you this text message his

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sound engineer

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said

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that he didn't think the problem was a

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connectivity problem or

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you know he didn't think the problem was

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on our end

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uh and then he said i'm not kidding in

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all caps

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he said i plugged your file into into

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are you still there yeah i'm here oh

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yeah i'm here hello

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okay yeah i'm here too

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um anyway sound technician said that he

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took readings

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off of our uh of our file

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our digital file and uh the machine was

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turned off

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whoa when he when he went back to run it

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a second time

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you notice this machine's never been

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turned on

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whoa that's about as poltergeist-like as

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and these weird synchronicities i mean

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terry

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you've most recently been on a number of

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amazing

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shows like coast to coast one of my

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personal favorites

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linda moulton howe you have compelling

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proof of

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alien visitation um alleged government

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involvement

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and you know these things sort of

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uh follow when when when you you get

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these true stories

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and uh and an alien impact implant to

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boot

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discovered on a routine x-ray

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well you know when i was on george

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george insisted that i use a landline

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well you know who's got a landline these

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days nobody's got a landline

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right uh so his uh producer said hey why

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don't you just go get a cheap hotel room

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but i'm not sure i can do that so i went

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to some three bag hotel

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and got on the line made sure that they

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had a landline

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and i told the guy at the desk i'm

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expecting an important call

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uh at midnight uh or two am rather

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and it you know please pass them through

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right away

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because the calls go through the front

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desk and

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phones went down phone lines computer

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lines everything went down

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uh i i was left i did the show on my

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cell phone

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with uh george nori

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hey there's nothing wrong it's just

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crazy stuff

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it really is and that's kind of you know

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that's where we ended up

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for our listeners that are listening in

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we had all kinds of problems with skype

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and

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everything else so here we are on you

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know basically

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is primitive technology which you know

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sometimes in my opinion

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is the very best and this

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kind of brings up you know the fact that

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we have one of ufology's most amazing

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cases

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as a focus today terry you've

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been on before but with any luck you'll

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be on again

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you are going to dive you're going to

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dive into devil's den the reckoning

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a second part to the devil's den book

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series

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i am i am i'm glad it took me a year to

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get it done but i'm glad it's done i'm

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glad it's out

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uh it's been well received it was uh

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number one in new releases

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i think i knocked down the number 14

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today um

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i'm very satisfied it's been well

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received and uh

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yeah you know what i tried to do is i

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tried to take double stint left so many

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questions unanswered i i want to try to

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answer uh those questions so i'll just

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if you're if you're good to go i'll just

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dive into it

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let's do it it's such an amazing case i

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mean you've got this thing hovering i

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don't want to jump you know the best way

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to ease our listeners

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this is a progressive story with

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important stuff enclosed

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so i'm going to let you just take the

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rain you you know best terry and

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and i'll hang in there and ask my

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questions when you have a moment

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sure sure interrupt anytime okay uh i'm

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going to uh

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postpone telling the whole story of the

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abduction i do tell it in the beginning

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of uh my retelling i should say in the

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beginning

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of the reckoning um but i'm going to

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postpone that for a while because i want

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to touch on a couple things that people

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who've read

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incident at devil's den probably want

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the updates i promised

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and uh when i was writing this

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incidental devil's den

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in 2017 i uh checked the arkansas

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newspapers looking for stories involving

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devil's den

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because i went into the same problem

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that david politis ran into and that is

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the arkansas parks and recreation

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department out a little while

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responded with well we don't keep those

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records you know

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right they they they don't keep a record

286
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:10,240
of who goes missing you know that makes

287
00:11:12,870 --> 00:11:11,120
no sense

288
00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:12,880
like david politis said you walk into

289
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:14,480
any small town sheriff's office

290
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:16,800
in this country and say uh how many

291
00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:18,640
people you got missing and he'll he'll

292
00:11:21,509 --> 00:11:20,480
name he or she will name them off the

293
00:11:24,550 --> 00:11:21,519
top of their head

294
00:11:28,069 --> 00:11:24,560
i mean it just makes no sense

295
00:11:30,150 --> 00:11:28,079
uh so i did some research

296
00:11:32,069 --> 00:11:30,160
when uh on devil's den because i was

297
00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:32,079
curious as i'm writing the book

298
00:11:36,150 --> 00:11:34,640
um i asked myself you know how did this

299
00:11:38,790 --> 00:11:36,160
place

300
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:38,800
how did it get the name devil in its

301
00:11:40,949 --> 00:11:39,360
name

302
00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:40,959
how did what happened to deserve the

303
00:11:46,870 --> 00:11:43,600
name devil in the title

304
00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:46,880
and uh i did some research and the first

305
00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:47,760
thing i found

306
00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:50,240
was a newspaper article from the

307
00:11:54,710 --> 00:11:50,880
pittsburgh

308
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:54,720
press dated 1946

309
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:57,920
and it's the story of um a little girl

310
00:12:02,870 --> 00:11:59,920
named katherine van oss

311
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:02,880
and she and her family mom dad and her

312
00:12:07,269 --> 00:12:04,639
two younger siblings

313
00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:07,279
uh were on their way from pittsburgh to

314
00:12:13,030 --> 00:12:09,760
el paso texas

315
00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:13,040
had relatives uh for a visit and

316
00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:15,360
the plan was they drove and they spent

317
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:22,949
and at the campsite in 1946 he

318
00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:24,800
explain after the war there was kind of

319
00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:27,680
like a camping a resurgence in camping

320
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:30,399
uh and there was like a camping craze

321
00:12:33,670 --> 00:12:32,160
and i guess that's a backlash from you

322
00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:33,680
know four years of uh

323
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:36,800
gasoline rationing and and prohibited

324
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:37,360
travel

325
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:40,160
and uh people just wanted to get out um

326
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:42,720
so camper sales sword and uh the van als

327
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:43,600
family had

328
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:46,000
a new camper and they uh looked at the

329
00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:47,680
devil's dead and uh

330
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:50,560
spent the night so uneventful first

331
00:12:53,829 --> 00:12:52,160
night they get up the next morning mom's

332
00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:53,839
putting breakfast on the table

333
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:55,680
kids are running around the camper like

334
00:13:00,550 --> 00:12:57,760
you know like little kids will do

335
00:13:02,069 --> 00:13:00,560
um and then the two little moms putting

336
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:02,079
breakfast on the table she sees the two

337
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:03,519
boys pop out but no

338
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:07,440
uh catherine so she's annoying she said

339
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:08,880
boys where's your sister

340
00:13:13,670 --> 00:13:11,839
and they're like well she was right here

341
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:13,680
and then you know mom says well go find

342
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,320
her

343
00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:16,560
so boys take off and they run you know

344
00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:19,040
to the bathrooms to the kiosk to all the

345
00:13:23,110 --> 00:13:20,160
places you think she

346
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:23,120
might have wandered off to and uh no

347
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:23,839
catherine

348
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:28,240
anywhere so mom gets concerned wakes up

349
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:29,760
the old man he gets up

350
00:13:34,069 --> 00:13:31,760
uh now they're thinking you know this

351
00:13:35,350 --> 00:13:34,079
little girl can't have gone far she's

352
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:35,360
seven years old

353
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:37,839
she's wearing flip-flops and a bathing

354
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:39,199
suit

355
00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:40,880
and if you step foot offside the

356
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:42,399
campground into the forest

357
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:45,680
it's thick brush and rocky terrain

358
00:13:49,269 --> 00:13:48,560
it's difficult going you know with boots

359
00:13:52,389 --> 00:13:49,279
much less

360
00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:52,399
flip-flops so

361
00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:54,800
they uh they get other campers involved

362
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:56,240
and by noon

363
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:57,920
they're worried and they get the park

364
00:14:00,790 --> 00:13:59,279
rangers involved

365
00:14:02,629 --> 00:14:00,800
and the park rangers take it very

366
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:02,639
seriously and they ordered a

367
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:05,120
full-scale search and there's an

368
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:06,480
adjacent park

369
00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:09,600
uh to the east of devil's den

370
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:12,480
called the ozark national forest and

371
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:13,279
they have

372
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:18,480
more equipment you know just more more

373
00:14:22,550 --> 00:14:19,440
people

374
00:14:25,509 --> 00:14:22,560
uh to help hunt so they got involved

375
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,519
and what followed was a seven day hunt

376
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:27,600
for catherine van alst

377
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:29,600
that was supposed to last seven days and

378
00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:31,120
then transition from a

379
00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:35,920
rescue to a recovery and uh they got uh

380
00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:39,040
oh they had like 2500 people looking for

381
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:40,800
her

382
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,320
they didn't have the forward-looking

383
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,720
infrared radar for a heat signature like

384
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:46,320
they have today

385
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:48,000
but what they did have they had planes

386
00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:49,839
volunteers planes from the civil air

387
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:51,120
patrol a lot of little rock

388
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:54,320
fly over every inch of the uh of the

389
00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:56,880
park looking for this little girl and i

390
00:15:01,990 --> 00:14:59,519
mean no no sign of her anywhere

391
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:02,000
and on the seventh day there's a young

392
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:03,680
man who's a volunteer from the

393
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:05,279
university arkansas named

394
00:15:09,189 --> 00:15:07,680
chadwick now you know who knows if

395
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:09,199
that's a first name or a last name i

396
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:09,680
don't know

397
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:12,880
i'd like to know um and by the way

398
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:14,639
you can also find an excellent story

399
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:18,240
about it in the kansas city star

400
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:21,680
okay and uh chadwick had climbed

401
00:15:26,069 --> 00:15:24,320
up to the top of this precipice you know

402
00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:26,079
it's the ozark mountains it's kind of a

403
00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:27,600
mountainous area but

404
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:29,360
you know not like the rockies it's kind

405
00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:31,680
of like more like appalachia kind of uh

406
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:35,440
mountains and um there's a zigzag

407
00:15:42,389 --> 00:15:40,240
path that goes up this uh uh

408
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:42,399
mini mountain that's like 600 feet

409
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:44,480
elevation

410
00:15:50,310 --> 00:15:47,440
and you take a zigzag trail up a really

411
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:50,320
treacherous path to get to the top

412
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:52,959
now the top of this of this precipice

413
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:54,000
has been searched

414
00:15:59,430 --> 00:15:57,680
at least twice before but he decides

415
00:16:01,110 --> 00:15:59,440
you know i got not i got no place else

416
00:16:01,749 --> 00:16:01,120
every place i go i've searched before so

417
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:01,759
he goes back

418
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:04,560
up and he's walking around calling

419
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:05,920
catherine

420
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:08,399
and sure enough little girl pops out

421
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:11,440
from underneath this limestone overhang

422
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:15,120
and says here i am and he's like oh my

423
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:15,680
god

424
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:19,199
you know i found her so you know he

425
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:20,160
scoops her up

426
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:23,040
and uh looks her over and i go oh my god

427
00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:24,160
are you okay

428
00:16:28,389 --> 00:16:26,399
and she's like yeah i'm fine they said

429
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:28,399
where have you been

430
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:30,399
and she says i don't know i i woke up

431
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:31,839
here this morning and i thought you'd be

432
00:16:35,189 --> 00:16:33,440
coming for me or somebody'd be coming

433
00:16:37,509 --> 00:16:35,199
for me

434
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:37,519
so you know he carefully carries her

435
00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:39,920
down the trail and back to camp and

436
00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:42,320
everybody has a celebration and thank

437
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:44,959
god a little girl's alive and well

438
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:47,759
so then they started talking to her and

439
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:49,199
they discovered that

440
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:51,680
according to her mother her hair was

441
00:16:56,629 --> 00:16:53,360
clean

442
00:16:59,829 --> 00:16:56,639
she had a few bug bites but

443
00:17:02,150 --> 00:16:59,839
and verified by a she had a doctor

444
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:02,160
look her over too hadn't lost an ounce

445
00:17:04,870 --> 00:17:02,880
of weight

446
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:04,880
was well hydrated despite the fact that

447
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:06,559
on top of this

448
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:08,079
precipice where she was found there was

449
00:17:13,350 --> 00:17:10,079
no portable water anywhere

450
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:13,360
so she had nothing to drink um

451
00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:14,720
and she has no memory of what happened

452
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:17,439
to her and

453
00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:19,199
that's featured also talk the story is

454
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:21,439
also featured in david pilate's book

455
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:24,640
um missing 4-1-1

456
00:17:28,549 --> 00:17:26,559
it's the fourth volume in his missing

457
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:28,559
4-1-1 series

458
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:30,400
and he talks about all the strange

459
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:32,320
occurrences that happen

460
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:35,280
in places that have the name double or

461
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:37,200
diablo in them you know devil slaves

462
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:38,640
devils glenn devil's tower there's

463
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:40,400
there's slew of them

464
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:43,039
and uh statistically he's a good

465
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,640
statistician he's a former law

466
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:46,240
enforcement guy you know he doesn't draw

467
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:48,080
any conclusions he just gathers facts

468
00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:50,000
and presents them

469
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:52,640
um but there is a disproportionate

470
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:53,760
amount of people that go

471
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:56,640
missing hunters hikers campers fishermen

472
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:58,160
just vanish

473
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:00,880
under weird circumstances if they're

474
00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:03,280
staying in a place with the word devil

475
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:07,360
so make it out what she may um

476
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:09,440
but will catherine van als i tried to

477
00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:10,880
find her as an adult

478
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:12,160
i mean she would have been up in years

479
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:14,320
but i'd like to found her anyway because

480
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:16,000
and that's an opportunity lost because

481
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:17,360
i'd sure like to know

482
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:18,960
what her nightmares had been like for

483
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:20,480
the last 40 years

484
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:24,240
you know yeah so and then uh

485
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:28,080
when i was writing devil's den um

486
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:32,000
in 2017 in early 2017 and i forget the

487
00:18:36,789 --> 00:18:33,600
month

488
00:18:39,669 --> 00:18:36,799
i included the arkansas gazette links

489
00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:39,679
are in my book a young lady named monica

490
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:41,760
murphy 28 years old

491
00:18:45,909 --> 00:18:44,960
with children visited the park by

492
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:45,919
herself

493
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:48,480
and fell or jumped to her death from

494
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:52,000
like a 100 foot limestone cliff

495
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:55,200
and they ruled it as a homicide the

496
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:57,600
medical examiner ruled it as a homicide

497
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:00,000
and it got very little press

498
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:06,230
that was in uh like i said it was

499
00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:08,240
earlier in 2017

500
00:19:13,590 --> 00:19:11,360
then in august of 2017 there was a young

501
00:19:15,110 --> 00:19:13,600
man 32 year old guy from bartlesville

502
00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:15,120
oklahoma

503
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,000
who's visiting devil's den uh with a

504
00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:20,160
friend they're there they're walking uh

505
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:22,559
he and his friend are walking the uh

506
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:24,000
butterfield trail

507
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:26,960
uh which cuts across devil's stint it's

508
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:28,320
named butterfield trail

509
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:30,960
after the uh the old stagecoach line it

510
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:32,160
was the first intercontinental

511
00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:34,320
stagecoach line

512
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:35,840
uh ran right through the middle of the

513
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:39,600
park a name butterfield stuck

514
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:41,120
so they're not walking this like a

515
00:19:44,789 --> 00:19:42,799
saturday afternoon there's other people

516
00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:44,799
on the trail the trail is paved it's

517
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:47,600
it's very it's a very easy walk

518
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:49,679
and the two are walking along and there

519
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:51,280
are you know maybe a mile

520
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:54,240
down the road and uh suddenly rodney

521
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:56,000
letterman has um

522
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:58,240
like an asthma attack and he asks his

523
00:20:02,390 --> 00:19:59,840
friend will you run back and grab my

524
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:02,400
inhaler i left it back to truck

525
00:20:07,029 --> 00:20:04,640
suspended said yeah sure no worries so

526
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:07,039
friend runs back grabs an inhaler

527
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:10,159
uh makes the run back uh 20 25 minutes

528
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:11,440
he's gone

529
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:14,240
gets back and there's no rodney letter

530
00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:15,280
anywhere

531
00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:17,520
uh but there is a cell phone on us on

532
00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:19,200
the ground

533
00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:20,559
and i don't know about you but my cell

534
00:20:22,549 --> 00:20:22,080
phone doesn't leave my pocket or my

535
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:22,559
hands

536
00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:25,280
never you know i'd never set it down

537
00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:27,919
anywhere and walk away not intentionally

538
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:30,159
nope stay thinking well maybe maybe he

539
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:31,440
just you know went in the woods to

540
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:33,200
relieve himself or something

541
00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:35,600
uh and he's calling out his name and

542
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:37,280
he's kind of does a little search for

543
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:39,120
about 15 minutes and

544
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:42,559
no rodney letterman and he gets

545
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:44,480
a little freaked out gets a hold of the

546
00:20:48,149 --> 00:20:46,960
sheriff pardon me the park rangers and

547
00:20:49,750 --> 00:20:48,159
said my friend

548
00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:49,760
he was having an asthma attack i don't

549
00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:51,840
think he could have gone very far

550
00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:55,280
um and he just disappeared

551
00:21:00,310 --> 00:20:58,799
so what followed was the biggest manhunt

552
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:00,320
down in devil's den

553
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:04,559
of 2017. 2500 searchers estimated

554
00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:06,480
now this time they had uh helicopters

555
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:08,240
but paul was looking in for red radar

556
00:21:14,230 --> 00:21:10,320
looking for a heat signature

557
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:14,240
um and the same you know people from

558
00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:16,960
both parks departments uh aided in the

559
00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:18,880
aiding in the search

560
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:20,480
and they looked for seven days and no

561
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:22,960
lobby letterman and it transitioned from

562
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:25,280
the rescue to a recovery

563
00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:26,960
and the search was scaled back to

564
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:28,480
minimal

565
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:31,600
now the uh uh

566
00:21:38,070 --> 00:21:34,960
the letterman family hired uh trackers

567
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:38,080
and and uh hired uh searchers to

568
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:40,000
continue with the hunt

569
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:43,039
for rodney um and that went on until

570
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:44,640
october

571
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:47,280
and i mean nothing they found nothing

572
00:21:51,590 --> 00:21:49,200
not a shred of clothing not a trap

573
00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:51,600
not anything as a matter of fact i

574
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:52,480
talked to

575
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:55,200
a deputy sheriff from the russellville

576
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:56,400
police department

577
00:22:00,870 --> 00:21:59,120
who was there uh and he spoke to me

578
00:22:01,909 --> 00:22:00,880
under the condition of anonymity and

579
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:01,919
said yeah we have

580
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,640
trackers we attract dogs we have uh you

581
00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:06,720
know bloodhounds that uh

582
00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:08,080
are trained for this kind of thing and

583
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:09,919
we use them all the time

584
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:12,159
so they brought the dogs in the dogs got

585
00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:13,600
a sense off the phone

586
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:17,039
and according to him they just sat down

587
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:18,799
and i said well you know i don't know

588
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:20,159
anything about tracking jobs what does

589
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:21,520
that mean

590
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:24,080
and he says that the the scent that was

591
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:26,159
on the phone

592
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:30,080
wasn't anywhere around it wasn't

593
00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:32,240
you know there was no sense of him

594
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:33,200
walking away

595
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:36,480
it was just the phone

596
00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:38,080
and i said again well what does that

597
00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:40,080
mean to you he says well

598
00:22:45,029 --> 00:22:42,640
he he sure didn't go down he sure didn't

599
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:45,039
leave the area 360 degrees around where

600
00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:46,559
the phone was found

601
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:49,840
so that really kind of only leaves up

602
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:53,280
wow and uh that's his opinion

603
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:57,440
the bradley went up and uh

604
00:23:01,270 --> 00:22:59,280
at the time i published my book in march

605
00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:01,280
of 2018 i promised that

606
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:03,120
if i get any updates regarding randy

607
00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:04,960
letterman i would let the readers know

608
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:08,320
so um i did what happened was

609
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:11,760
in march of 2019 there was a young

610
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:14,400
couple walking to butterfield trail

611
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:18,080
and the the woman um

612
00:23:21,190 --> 00:23:20,240
saw this sitting on top of a log right

613
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:21,200
off the trail

614
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:24,000
in plain sight i mean anybody could see

615
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:25,520
it it wasn't hidden

616
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:27,280
uh which means to me it was placed there

617
00:23:31,750 --> 00:23:28,640
intentionally by

618
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:31,760
someone sure she saw

619
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:34,080
what she thought was an albino turtle

620
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:35,280
she says is that

621
00:23:38,310 --> 00:23:37,679
an albino turtle and her and her

622
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:38,320
friend's like

623
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:40,000
i don't know what that is they walk over

624
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:41,440
to it

625
00:23:45,029 --> 00:23:43,279
he picks it up and then once he's got in

626
00:23:46,070 --> 00:23:45,039
his hand he realizes what it is and he

627
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:46,080
drops it

628
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:49,679
and uh it's a human skull it's the top

629
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:50,000
just

630
00:23:54,070 --> 00:23:52,559
the top part of a human skull and it's

631
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:54,080
been bleached white by

632
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:57,360
sunlight and it was

633
00:24:01,510 --> 00:23:59,919
collected as evidence and sent to the

634
00:24:03,669 --> 00:24:01,520
medical examiner in bartlesville

635
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:03,679
oklahoma who positively identified it

636
00:24:07,590 --> 00:24:04,640
through

637
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:07,600
dna evidence that it was indeed the top

638
00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:09,760
of rodney letterman's skull

639
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:11,120
and that's all they ever found to the

640
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:13,200
guy

641
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:15,520
you know i think i mentioned this in

642
00:24:21,750 --> 00:24:17,679
devil's den

643
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:21,760
but it it's worth noting that uh

644
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:25,200
i i made contact with um i did put this

645
00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:27,120
in double stand i made contact

646
00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:28,880
there are two native american tribes

647
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:30,640
that lay claim to that land

648
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:33,200
the kahino and the cato or kato for

649
00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:34,480
crowns both way

650
00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:39,840
tribe and um there's a medicine woman

651
00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:42,400
in a small town it's near russell though

652
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:43,840
i can't think of the names off top of my

653
00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:45,440
head but anyway i

654
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:48,000
i got a hold of her uh by telephone and

655
00:24:51,029 --> 00:24:49,600
i said you don't know me but i'm writing

656
00:24:53,269 --> 00:24:51,039
a book about devil's den

657
00:24:54,549 --> 00:24:53,279
and i'm wondering if you could share i

658
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:54,559
know that your people

659
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:56,960
uh have a claim to some of that land and

660
00:24:59,830 --> 00:24:58,400
i was wondering if you could share with

661
00:25:03,350 --> 00:24:59,840
me your thoughts about uh

662
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:03,360
devil's den and you know kind of uh your

663
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:04,240
experiences

664
00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:07,360
and and the tribe's attitude towards

665
00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:10,320
double stand she said sure

666
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:13,679
she said this uh it's cursed ground

667
00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:16,080
so we don't we don't uh go there we

668
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:18,720
don't hunt there we don't fish there

669
00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:20,960
it's a place to transit through we'll

670
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:22,799
walk across there to get from point a to

671
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:24,000
point b

672
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:27,120
uh but nobody's spending the night there

673
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:30,480
and i said yeah i can understand that

674
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:33,200
and uh so then i was curious to go one

675
00:25:36,149 --> 00:25:34,080
step further

676
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:36,159
and i got a hold of a friend from

677
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:37,679
michigan state university

678
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:40,640
who found an anthropologist and i got a

679
00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:42,640
hold of a archaeologist

680
00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:45,760
uh who specialized

681
00:25:51,029 --> 00:25:49,360
in in the ozark area

682
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:51,039
where we were near the ozark mountains

683
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:53,919
southern missouri northern arkansas

684
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:58,080
um and uh i asked him i said you know

685
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:59,520
can you tell me a little bit about

686
00:26:02,549 --> 00:26:01,120
you know this double stem state park

687
00:26:03,990 --> 00:26:02,559
he's uh are you familiar and he's like

688
00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:04,000
oh yeah absolutely i'm familiar with

689
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:05,120
that

690
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:08,640
and i said i'd like to know um what kind

691
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:09,600
of

692
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:14,080
native american or artifacts you found

693
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:15,679
and he says well it's it's curious that

694
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:18,240
you asked that because

695
00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:22,080
we found uh native american stone tools

696
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:24,000
flake tools

697
00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:27,600
going back to neolithic people

698
00:26:33,029 --> 00:26:30,640
all around devil's den state park

699
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:33,039
but we've never found evidence of an

700
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:33,760
encampment

701
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:36,799
or evidence of a single arrowhead

702
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:37,679
spearhead

703
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:40,799
nothing of the sort anywhere within the

704
00:26:45,430 --> 00:26:44,080
confines of the park so i thought well

705
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:45,440
that's

706
00:26:53,590 --> 00:26:48,960
maybe now i understand why it had the

707
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:55,190
yeah that's that's the update from

708
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:56,880
devil's den

709
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:00,880
that's very important yeah

710
00:27:05,269 --> 00:27:04,240
very interesting that march 2019 this

711
00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:05,279
couple sees

712
00:27:08,950 --> 00:27:07,440
an albino turtle quote-unquote instead

713
00:27:11,590 --> 00:27:08,960
of it's a human skull

714
00:27:13,029 --> 00:27:11,600
it seems like a peaceful transition or i

715
00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:13,039
mean there's no way to positively know

716
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:13,840
but

717
00:27:18,389 --> 00:27:16,320
it is identified as rodney letterman you

718
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:18,399
know terry the very interesting thing

719
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:19,520
here

720
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:20,880
a lot of the things that you've

721
00:27:25,669 --> 00:27:23,600
mentioned the two native tribes involved

722
00:27:28,070 --> 00:27:25,679
so many similarities to properties in

723
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:28,080
the united basin of utah is why i piped

724
00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:28,720
up

725
00:27:31,750 --> 00:27:30,399
and it's interesting that you mentioned

726
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:31,760
that areas with the name

727
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:34,640
devil have a disproportionate amount of

728
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:35,760
odd activity

729
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:38,480
a location that i'm very familiar with

730
00:27:42,870 --> 00:27:39,600
behind

731
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:42,880
the strawberry river in duchesne utah

732
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:45,360
featured on portals to hell tv show

733
00:27:49,669 --> 00:27:46,480
anyway

734
00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:49,679
is a place called the devil soup bowl

735
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:51,039
and i think it's interesting how you

736
00:27:56,310 --> 00:27:53,360
mentioned the way the place devil's den

737
00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:56,320
got its name and it's eerily similar as

738
00:28:02,070 --> 00:27:59,039
far as little kids getting

739
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:02,080
well strange uh

740
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:04,080
i don't know it you know by now you

741
00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:05,840
would think that strange disappearances

742
00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:07,360
with folks dealing with strange

743
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:08,720
circumstances

744
00:28:12,389 --> 00:28:11,520
would gather more attention like david

745
00:28:15,669 --> 00:28:12,399
pilates has

746
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:15,679
has uh kind of focused in what does it

747
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:16,480
all mean

748
00:28:20,230 --> 00:28:18,640
it i mean there's so much to it i know i

749
00:28:25,190 --> 00:28:20,240
that's a big question

750
00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:29,669
well you know i uh i have a theory

751
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:31,520
awesome

752
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:33,360
and that is that you know in devil's den

753
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:34,960
i i made a statement that

754
00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:37,840
um in the very last chapter that i was

755
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:39,279
visited by

756
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:41,120
an alien entity and i know that's hard

757
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:43,120
to believe and i know that uh

758
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:45,760
my editor uh i wanted to keep that

759
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:46,240
chapter

760
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:49,679
out of the book just because it

761
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:51,840
it does make the story hard to believe

762
00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:53,200
you know people roll their eyes

763
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:55,039
and like oh yeah yeah an alien came to

764
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:57,039
visit you right here we go

765
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:59,840
well that's that's fact um you know

766
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:01,039
that's this conversation

767
00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:04,000
i had this conversation a week ago with

768
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:05,360
uh whitley strieber

769
00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:08,559
uh who's been visited and uh

770
00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:10,840
you know there are people out there that

771
00:29:15,990 --> 00:29:13,600
uh getting in contact with uh

772
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:16,000
who had been contacted by alien beings

773
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:17,760
and i could i could name a slew of them

774
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:18,640
and

775
00:29:26,230 --> 00:29:21,760
a lot of them are well respected people

776
00:29:30,789 --> 00:29:26,240
so in october of 2017

777
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:30,799
uh i woke up in my living room

778
00:29:36,389 --> 00:29:32,720
now i've never sleep walked one day in

779
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:36,399
my life and i woke up in my living room

780
00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:39,200
and i'm in my chair and i opened my eyes

781
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:40,080
and i'm like

782
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:43,760
how did i get here and i glanced over to

783
00:29:48,789 --> 00:29:46,640
my left and the alarm is set

784
00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:48,799
and then i see the cat and the cat's

785
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:49,840
just kind of

786
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:52,960
chilling like cats do

787
00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:54,720
but seated directly across from me there

788
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:56,559
was what i first took to be

789
00:30:02,950 --> 00:29:59,760
a petite asian woman

790
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:02,960
and she was dressed in black

791
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:05,200
she had on like sturdy black nursing

792
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:07,360
shoes with a high heel

793
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:11,120
uh sturdy kind of heel to compensate for

794
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,039
her short stature

795
00:30:17,350 --> 00:30:15,600
um the blouse that she was wearing had

796
00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:17,360
extra long sleeves

797
00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:19,360
and with you know four kind of ugly

798
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:21,760
fingers sticking out

799
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:25,120
um like i said you know what it she had

800
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:26,159
on a black wig

801
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:28,240
and black glasses oversized black

802
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:29,279
glasses

803
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:30,720
you know at first glance she could

804
00:30:34,830 --> 00:30:32,320
probably walk down the streets of dallas

805
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:34,840
and not draw a second book

806
00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:37,919
um but you know when you looked at when

807
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:39,679
i looked at her closely she did not look

808
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:41,440
like a human being

809
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:45,039
and what was crazy was i i

810
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:52,789
so i i won't i won't we don't have time

811
00:30:57,750 --> 00:30:54,720
for me to go into that whole story

812
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:57,760
uh other than to say that uh

813
00:31:01,909 --> 00:31:00,399
uh i call her betty when i wrote this

814
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:01,919
incident at devil's den

815
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:04,960
yup on my notes that night because

816
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:07,360
when i first saw her i know this sounds

817
00:31:13,830 --> 00:31:08,880
goofy but

818
00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:18,230
but from a profile she reminded me of

819
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,480
betty rubble from the flintstones you're

820
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:22,559
not going to you're not going to be

821
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:23,919
you're not going to believe this terry

822
00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:27,120
but it's it it seemed as if somebody

823
00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:29,519
gurgled everything that you said is

824
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:30,880
there any way that we could try to say

825
00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:32,399
that again i apologize

826
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:35,519
what what she appeared to be like

827
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:37,600
i sure can and that's not the first time

828
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:38,960
that's happened either

829
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:42,159
um yeah i saw and interrupt me if my if

830
00:31:47,350 --> 00:31:43,679
i go garbled again you bet

831
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:47,360
and i saw seated directly across from me

832
00:31:51,509 --> 00:31:48,480
what i first took to be

833
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:51,519
a petite asian woman dressed in black

834
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:54,480
uh she had on my black long you know the

835
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:55,200
black

836
00:32:02,789 --> 00:32:00,960
uh nursing shoes with a high heel to

837
00:32:06,630 --> 00:32:02,799
kind of compensate for her

838
00:32:09,509 --> 00:32:06,640
short stasher uh and she had on uh

839
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:09,519
and she had a red scarf around tied

840
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:11,519
around her neck to hide her pencil thin

841
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:15,120
neck and black wig and oversized black

842
00:32:19,909 --> 00:32:17,120
sunglasses

843
00:32:21,509 --> 00:32:19,919
and uh i i also mentioned that you know

844
00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:21,519
if she walked down the streets of dallas

845
00:32:28,149 --> 00:32:25,120
i doubted she'd draw a second look

846
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:28,159
but when i looked closely at her uh and

847
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:30,000
first of all i want to mention too that

848
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:33,360
you know i'm not freaked out i'm in that

849
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:37,279
calm kind of weird zone uh

850
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:38,720
and you know normally if you wake up and

851
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:40,399
you find a stranger in your house male

852
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:41,600
or female there's

853
00:32:46,149 --> 00:32:45,120
you know there's a normal reaction i

854
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:46,159
didn't have a normal

855
00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:49,440
reaction um

856
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:52,159
and this woman looked familiar to me and

857
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:53,760
i thought about falling from my wife it

858
00:32:57,029 --> 00:32:55,679
was just down the hall

859
00:32:58,950 --> 00:32:57,039
and i thought you know what no they got

860
00:33:00,389 --> 00:32:58,960
that covered too you know she's not

861
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:00,399
going to hear me

862
00:33:05,430 --> 00:33:03,679
uh why waste the effort but i can see

863
00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:05,440
the alarm panel the alarm set in the

864
00:33:08,830 --> 00:33:07,039
house i have no idea how she got in the

865
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:08,840
house

866
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:12,640
wow and um

867
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:14,159
we had a we had a telepathic

868
00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:16,320
conversation

869
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:19,360
and strange as that sounds

870
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:21,360
i recognized this woman i called her

871
00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:22,799
betty because she

872
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:24,640
hit with this black wig she reminded me

873
00:33:31,750 --> 00:33:26,960
the old flintstone cartoons

874
00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:31,760
uh version of betty rubble and uh

875
00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:35,519
but my thought was and she read my

876
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:36,880
thoughts and my thought well first

877
00:33:39,909 --> 00:33:38,240
thought was i wish you'd take those

878
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:39,919
glasses off because i wanted to see her

879
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:41,360
face

880
00:33:46,549 --> 00:33:43,440
and she took the glasses off and as soon

881
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:46,559
as she did that i recognized her

882
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:50,240
and this is the same entity

883
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:52,240
that i saw when i was a little kid i

884
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:53,760
mean i'm talking like four to seven

885
00:33:57,509 --> 00:33:55,200
years of age

886
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:57,519
when they would take me when i was a kid

887
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:58,399
um

888
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:01,200
and we would go to this like playroom

889
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:02,880
and there were other children there

890
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:04,880
that i didn't i knew them in this

891
00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:07,279
playroom setting

892
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:08,879
but i didn't know them from school or

893
00:34:12,069 --> 00:34:10,480
recognized them from the neighborhood i

894
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:12,079
don't know who they were but when we

895
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:13,200
were there

896
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:16,800
we were we were friends and there was

897
00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:19,440
probably a dozen of us

898
00:34:26,950 --> 00:34:23,599
and i had called this woman

899
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:26,960
sue back then when i was age four and i

900
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:27,760
called her sue

901
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:30,879
because we had a neighbor behind us who

902
00:34:35,190 --> 00:34:32,159
was japanese

903
00:34:36,149 --> 00:34:35,200
she had married an american gi uh right

904
00:34:38,470 --> 00:34:36,159
post world war

905
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:38,480
ii uh moved to the states and he was

906
00:34:42,629 --> 00:34:39,440
deceased

907
00:34:46,069 --> 00:34:42,639
um so she was living by herself

908
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:46,079
she's a nice very kind woman

909
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:49,760
but she kind of looked like sue

910
00:34:57,270 --> 00:34:53,520
who had kind of uh kind of almond eyes

911
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:57,280
um you know she looked the entity that i

912
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:58,720
saw left asian but you know what she

913
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:00,960
didn't look human either

914
00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:04,000
um she had a bulbous back to her head

915
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:07,040
that's why in 2017 when i saw her this

916
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:08,880
wig was all set sideways

917
00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:11,280
because it was meant for a human head it

918
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:12,800
wasn't big enough

919
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:14,880
to cover the bulbous back part of her

920
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:17,200
head it was uh

921
00:35:24,630 --> 00:35:23,589
and we you know we carried on this

922
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:24,640
mental

923
00:35:32,390 --> 00:35:28,720
telepathic uh communication that

924
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:32,400
felt normal it felt uh

925
00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:34,000
you know well that's the way we talked

926
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:35,839
when i was a little kid and and i knew

927
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:37,200
her

928
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:40,480
um and i actually said it's good to see

929
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:41,520
you again

930
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:43,280
and she said it's good to see you too

931
00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:47,910
and i was a little i was a little

932
00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:51,040
concerned because i mean and

933
00:35:57,430 --> 00:35:55,119
on one hand i am i am scared to death um

934
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:57,440
but i'm under their influence so i feel

935
00:36:01,750 --> 00:35:58,640
i'm feeling calm

936
00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:01,760
but part of me knows that this could be

937
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:04,960
potential danger and i'm thinking to

938
00:36:07,190 --> 00:36:06,560
myself what if she's here to take me

939
00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:07,200
away

940
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:10,240
you know what if uh and my first thought

941
00:36:13,270 --> 00:36:10,640
was

942
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:13,280
you know my mind's an open book to her

943
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:14,720
what if i think of something

944
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:17,359
uh that angers her or what if i think of

945
00:36:21,990 --> 00:36:18,560
something inappropriate

946
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:22,000
right i forbid and uh

947
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:24,720
you know it's it's like if you had a

948
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:26,560
classroom of fourth graders and you told

949
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:26,960
them

950
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:28,960
okay for the next five minutes don't

951
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:30,720
think about elephants whatever you do do

952
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:32,480
not think of an elephant

953
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:33,599
well you know these kids are going to be

954
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:35,680
thinking of every kind of

955
00:36:39,190 --> 00:36:37,359
you know image of an elephant you can

956
00:36:42,310 --> 00:36:39,200
think of right

957
00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:42,320
uh so i'm embarrassed to admit that

958
00:36:46,870 --> 00:36:45,119
you know i had this flash of

959
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:46,880
inappropriate fun and i'm thinking no

960
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:50,480
don't think that no don't go there

961
00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:55,200
and i think i embarrassed her um

962
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:58,560
and she gave me a strong message

963
00:37:02,790 --> 00:36:59,680
politely

964
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:02,800
saying terry you can control your

965
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:03,839
thoughts

966
00:37:07,990 --> 00:37:06,160
uh you can keep or no she said terry you

967
00:37:11,589 --> 00:37:08,000
can keep some of your thoughts secret

968
00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:11,599
if you just try now who knows i

969
00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:12,960
mean i don't know if she said that to

970
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:15,200
placate me uh

971
00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:18,720
or if it's true um it did it did help me

972
00:37:25,430 --> 00:37:21,599
to relax and and focus

973
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:25,440
and and we had a conversation and

974
00:37:30,550 --> 00:37:27,760
i described in an incident at devil's

975
00:37:32,069 --> 00:37:30,560
then the content of those conversations

976
00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:32,079
and i said there were a couple things

977
00:37:35,829 --> 00:37:33,920
that i

978
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:35,839
i didn't want to discuss i didn't think

979
00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:37,359
it was appropriate to discuss at the

980
00:37:40,870 --> 00:37:38,400
time

981
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:40,880
and and the reason for that is i mean

982
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:42,240
there's just

983
00:37:48,710 --> 00:37:48,079
the public before you know you reach a

984
00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:48,720
point that

985
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:50,880
the lies credulity and they scratch

986
00:37:55,910 --> 00:37:52,320
their heads and say this

987
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:55,920
can't be true um

988
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:57,920
and i want people to know this stuff is

989
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:00,400
real that's important to me

990
00:38:07,510 --> 00:38:04,160
so one of the things she said to me

991
00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:07,520
was i mentally telepathically asked the

992
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:08,560
question

993
00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:10,240
is this about the thing in my legs and

994
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:17,190
and i said is my government involved in

995
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:20,160
this and she said yes

996
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:26,550
she told me that somewhere sometime

997
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:28,000
before my birth

998
00:38:31,270 --> 00:38:29,520
now that's kind of vague i was born in

999
00:38:34,390 --> 00:38:31,280
1955 so that

1000
00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:34,400
that could have been any time but she

1001
00:38:38,550 --> 00:38:34,880
said

1002
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:38,560
shortly before your birth um

1003
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:41,760
your president dwight d eisenhower

1004
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:45,119
entered into an agreement with

1005
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:49,440
uh a group of entities

1006
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:51,760
from from different uh regions of the

1007
00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:53,119
universe

1008
00:38:58,470 --> 00:38:55,680
that are in like a coalition they're all

1009
00:39:06,069 --> 00:39:02,470
and we signed an agreement with them

1010
00:39:09,190 --> 00:39:06,079
and she told me that um

1011
00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:09,200
that we had two space programs

1012
00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:13,040
we had the shuttle program at the time

1013
00:39:18,150 --> 00:39:16,160
that she said was the public face

1014
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:18,160
of the space program but there was a

1015
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:20,320
second one that the public didn't know

1016
00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:22,320
about

1017
00:39:27,910 --> 00:39:25,200
so you know i just she confirmed for me

1018
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:27,920
that there was a secret space program

1019
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:29,040
and uh

1020
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:30,960
she confirmed for me that you know like

1021
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:32,640
i needed confirmation of that but she

1022
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:34,160
confirmed for me that the united states

1023
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:35,280
government

1024
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:38,720
knew about this about these entities

1025
00:39:44,310 --> 00:39:41,760
and was actually in a treaty and a

1026
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:44,320
signed agreement with them

1027
00:39:51,829 --> 00:39:47,520
right and she said that the the

1028
00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:51,839
aliens um did not keep their agreement

1029
00:39:57,430 --> 00:39:55,040
and their agreement was that according

1030
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:57,440
to her that they could take x number of

1031
00:40:00,710 --> 00:39:58,640
people

1032
00:40:02,230 --> 00:40:00,720
from state national forest and other

1033
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:02,240
places

1034
00:40:06,069 --> 00:40:05,520
um but they demanded that uh they'd be

1035
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:06,079
given

1036
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:10,960
list of those people that go missing

1037
00:40:16,309 --> 00:40:12,400
because of their intervention that are

1038
00:40:19,990 --> 00:40:18,790
but they had a limit on how many people

1039
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:20,000
they could take

1040
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:23,119
and she says that in the 60s they

1041
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:25,359
put that aside and just act as they want

1042
00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:26,880
to act and they take

1043
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:28,400
who they want to take whenever they want

1044
00:40:31,829 --> 00:40:30,560
to take it and the united states

1045
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:31,839
government or any form

1046
00:40:38,950 --> 00:40:35,040
any other foreign government has no

1047
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:38,960
capacity no ability to uh

1048
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:42,720
to fight them and that matches you know

1049
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:44,400
david politis when he did this missing

1050
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:45,599
4-1-1 book

1051
00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:48,160
yeah talked about the same effect the

1052
00:40:52,069 --> 00:40:48,880
same

1053
00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:52,079
phenomena happening in canada

1054
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:55,520
and in australia and in europe uh

1055
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:57,119
people who are missing in amazing

1056
00:41:00,550 --> 00:40:59,520
numbers and under just incredible

1057
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:00,560
circumstances

1058
00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:03,280
you know a string of people all walking

1059
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:04,079
together

1060
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:06,880
and it's it's typically you know not

1061
00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:08,319
it's typically not somebody in the

1062
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:09,119
middle

1063
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:11,520
uh but it's typically someone lagging

1064
00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:12,560
behind

1065
00:41:17,990 --> 00:41:15,520
or someone who is uh enthusiastic and

1066
00:41:19,589 --> 00:41:18,000
maybe a little bit ahead of the group

1067
00:41:21,109 --> 00:41:19,599
those are the people that tend to just

1068
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:21,119
banishing them into thin

1069
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:24,240
air which is a

1070
00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:26,720
lesson for me you know if you watch the

1071
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:27,599
uh

1072
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:29,440
the nature shows you see though the

1073
00:41:35,109 --> 00:41:31,440
wildebeest on the african plains

1074
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:35,119
and uh who gets picked off by the hyenas

1075
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:36,800
and the lions it's the it's the

1076
00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:38,480
stragglers and the outliers

1077
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:40,960
that's right you know be in the middle

1078
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:43,359
of the pack there's safety there

1079
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:47,280
and um so those those are amazing

1080
00:41:51,829 --> 00:41:48,000
revelations

1081
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:51,839
to me they're very amazing then i saw

1082
00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:55,440
yeah and december 8th december 8th i'm

1083
00:42:00,630 --> 00:41:57,839
reading the jerusalem post online

1084
00:42:02,069 --> 00:42:00,640
um i've got some friends in tel aviv and

1085
00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:02,079
i like to catch up on what's happening

1086
00:42:08,309 --> 00:42:05,359
there so i mean i and it's a

1087
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:08,319
reputable newspaper and i see this

1088
00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:09,440
article

1089
00:42:17,910 --> 00:42:13,119
where um i am a shed

1090
00:42:22,309 --> 00:42:17,920
uh h-a-i-m last name e-s-h-e-d

1091
00:42:26,550 --> 00:42:22,319
i am a shed is uh by israel's brazal

1092
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:26,560
he's famous he uh he did all of uh

1093
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:27,280
israel's

1094
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:30,960
space defense and um had a hand in

1095
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:31,680
everything

1096
00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:36,079
that that israel does in space

1097
00:42:43,349 --> 00:42:39,760
and uh he's a uh high ranked general

1098
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:43,359
who retired you know 10 years ago and

1099
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:45,920
began a career in academia and he taught

1100
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:47,920
at university level for 10 years

1101
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:50,960
teaching you know physics and aerospace

1102
00:42:56,829 --> 00:42:53,440
engineering and the like

1103
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:56,839
and he came and came out and said

1104
00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:00,000
that the united states

1105
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:03,200
and israel have entered into a peace

1106
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:04,400
agreement

1107
00:43:07,829 --> 00:43:06,000
with and i think this is kind of an

1108
00:43:09,589 --> 00:43:07,839
unfortunate choice of words but maybe

1109
00:43:11,589 --> 00:43:09,599
it's an app description i don't like it

1110
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:11,599
because

1111
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:14,720
it sounds too sci-fi-ish to me right

1112
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:16,560
but he said that there is quote a

1113
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:19,599
galactic federation

1114
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:21,119
and i guess that would be the right word

1115
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:23,200
you know a group of

1116
00:43:28,710 --> 00:43:26,400
entities from different federations

1117
00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:28,720
in the universe that have come together

1118
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:30,640
and formed this uh

1119
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:32,640
this coalition federation whatever you

1120
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:34,079
want to call it yup

1121
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:35,599
and they've been in contact with the

1122
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:37,200
united states and israel

1123
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:39,359
he didn't say for how long but it sure

1124
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:41,440
could sure could be that

1125
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:43,440
you know that eisenhower attacked that

1126
00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:44,800
ice power agreement

1127
00:43:51,510 --> 00:43:48,400
um but who knows who knows for sure

1128
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:51,520
and he said that um that president

1129
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:54,720
donald trump has made plans

1130
00:44:00,630 --> 00:43:58,240
uh to disclose to the american people

1131
00:44:02,230 --> 00:44:00,640
that we've been in contact with et

1132
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:02,240
that's correct and had entered into a

1133
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:03,040
treaty

1134
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:08,400
with e.t and the

1135
00:44:11,589 --> 00:44:10,800
galactic federation was not happy with

1136
00:44:16,230 --> 00:44:11,599
that idea

1137
00:44:20,829 --> 00:44:16,240
no and uh they told the president

1138
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:20,839
you can't do this and you won't do this

1139
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:23,520
um they said that

1140
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:26,640
the reason is is that

1141
00:44:32,309 --> 00:44:29,680
people here aren't ready uh

1142
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:32,319
for this [\h__\h] it'll be a mistake if you

1143
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:33,760
do this

1144
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:36,640
uh and he said and i thought these were

1145
00:44:43,750 --> 00:44:39,520
five interesting words he said not until

1146
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:43,760
uh the general public understands uh

1147
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:48,000
the nature of space and spaceships

1148
00:44:51,670 --> 00:44:49,680
now i scratched my head when i when i

1149
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:51,680
read that and everybody else seems to

1150
00:44:55,109 --> 00:44:53,520
kind of gloss over it but that seems to

1151
00:45:00,069 --> 00:44:55,119
be the threshold

1152
00:45:02,230 --> 00:45:00,079
is the um the populace of the world

1153
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:02,240
has to have some type of knowledge of

1154
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:04,000
the nature of space and

1155
00:45:10,870 --> 00:45:07,119
spaceships whatever that means

1156
00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:10,880
um before we'll be able to accept uh

1157
00:45:15,430 --> 00:45:13,599
the truth i mean about about 18 and part

1158
00:45:16,790 --> 00:45:15,440
of my part of me wants to rebel against

1159
00:45:19,990 --> 00:45:16,800
that i think you know

1160
00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:20,000
well what you know what what

1161
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:22,160
is it that they don't want to tell us

1162
00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:24,400
that you know we cause rioting in hong

1163
00:45:27,270 --> 00:45:26,319
kong or abundant i mean i just don't

1164
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:27,280
understand right

1165
00:45:31,670 --> 00:45:30,880
right and it it like it it kind of

1166
00:45:34,309 --> 00:45:31,680
undermines

1167
00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:34,319
the public's which i get i think they

1168
00:45:38,470 --> 00:45:35,359
say the average

1169
00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:38,480
you know tv watcher is 12 years but you

1170
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:39,200
know the

1171
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:41,440
the age would be comparable to 12 years

1172
00:45:45,270 --> 00:45:43,200
when you're off work and zoning out with

1173
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:45,280
a beer in your hand yeah maybe but

1174
00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:47,440
you know i think the key words like you

1175
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:49,599
said not until the general public

1176
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:51,839
understands space and spaceships is

1177
00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:53,280
that's a huge

1178
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:54,720
i think you're on to something terry

1179
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:56,720
because you know

1180
00:46:00,069 --> 00:45:59,520
presidents entering agreements this is

1181
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:00,079
this is

1182
00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:02,800
big stuff huge stuff delving into space

1183
00:46:08,309 --> 00:46:05,520
programs and this mental telepathic

1184
00:46:10,069 --> 00:46:08,319
communication that you mentioned is also

1185
00:46:12,309 --> 00:46:10,079
a big deal because

1186
00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:12,319
i find it provocative and intriguing

1187
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:13,280
that bigelow

1188
00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:16,880
aerospace now 100 percent

1189
00:46:22,470 --> 00:46:19,920
is switching its focus from space into

1190
00:46:26,790 --> 00:46:22,480
consciousness studies so the telepathic

1191
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:29,510
it's funny that you mentioned that uh i

1192
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:31,680
read that new york post

1193
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:35,040
uh january 23rd article uh

1194
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:37,760
about bigelow and about his switch and

1195
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:39,520
his million dollar prize

1196
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,040
you know he's offered a million dollars

1197
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:43,200
to anyone who can uh

1198
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:46,240
give him conclusive proof

1199
00:46:51,829 --> 00:46:49,760
of an afterlife and uh

1200
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:51,839
you know that's it's not really the kind

1201
00:46:55,750 --> 00:46:52,800
of subject that

1202
00:46:56,950 --> 00:46:55,760
you know works with peer review i mean

1203
00:46:59,190 --> 00:46:56,960
there's no way to

1204
00:47:01,270 --> 00:46:59,200
you can't publish a scientific paper for

1205
00:47:01,750 --> 00:47:01,280
peer review and have somebody recreate

1206
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:01,760
your

1207
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,560
to validate it it just it's just

1208
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:10,480
i don't know how someone's gonna make

1209
00:47:14,470 --> 00:47:12,480
the claim for that prize but

1210
00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:14,480
you know i i read that article and noted

1211
00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:15,920
a couple of things was it you know big

1212
00:47:20,069 --> 00:47:17,760
old 76 years of age

1213
00:47:21,190 --> 00:47:20,079
so you know he's getting up in years and

1214
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:21,200
also his wife

1215
00:47:24,790 --> 00:47:23,280
just recently passed away yeah and he's

1216
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:24,800
been married many years since

1217
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:27,119
it was a good marriage and a great woman

1218
00:47:31,030 --> 00:47:29,200
sure so he's missing her he's facing his

1219
00:47:33,829 --> 00:47:31,040
own mortality

1220
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:33,839
uh but curiously he said in the article

1221
00:47:38,950 --> 00:47:35,440
um

1222
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:38,960
in the article

1223
00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:42,960
um i'm absolutely 100

1224
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:49,510
but i want to be able to prove it i want

1225
00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:51,119
to be able to prove it

1226
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:54,480
not only for myself but for humanity

1227
00:47:58,950 --> 00:47:56,640
because if you think about it proof of

1228
00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:58,960
that would be different than

1229
00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:01,440
the faith-based religion i mean

1230
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:02,800
empirical proof

1231
00:48:08,950 --> 00:48:06,240
of something um

1232
00:48:10,150 --> 00:48:08,960
we changed the whole dynamics i mean it

1233
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:10,160
would be

1234
00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:14,240
revolutionary and uh

1235
00:48:17,349 --> 00:48:16,240
it's going to be interesting to see

1236
00:48:18,309 --> 00:48:17,359
somebody's going to want to make a

1237
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:18,319
million dollars

1238
00:48:28,950 --> 00:48:27,990
i just lost you there i'm here and i i

1239
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:28,960
do think you're right

1240
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:31,200
i think the money aspect is definitely a

1241
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:34,640
weight it's it's an intriguing way to uh

1242
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:36,079
light the fire under some of the

1243
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:38,400
greatest minds and i think that this

1244
00:48:46,309 --> 00:48:43,040
recent um leslie keane

1245
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:46,319
uh studies into the afterlife you know

1246
00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:48,000
it is strange activity

1247
00:48:51,990 --> 00:48:51,280
and it appears that a multitude of

1248
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:52,000
studies

1249
00:48:56,710 --> 00:48:55,119
are are are kind of showing that there's

1250
00:48:58,390 --> 00:48:56,720
certain people who have a greater

1251
00:49:02,150 --> 00:48:58,400
ability to connect to these

1252
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:02,160
others who may have keys and tidbits

1253
00:49:09,109 --> 00:49:05,599
and breadcrumbs so to speak

1254
00:49:10,950 --> 00:49:09,119
about the afterlife and i mean wow

1255
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:10,960
your experience with a thousand of you

1256
00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:12,960
back when you were four years old

1257
00:49:18,150 --> 00:49:16,240
i find it so amazing that there is some

1258
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:18,160
entity that would take you when you were

1259
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:20,480
a kid and these almond eyes are very

1260
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:21,200
telling

1261
00:49:30,870 --> 00:49:27,680
as to the strange activity and and

1262
00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:30,880
they're reported quite often

1263
00:49:34,870 --> 00:49:34,240
yes yes i'm glad you mentioned leslie's

1264
00:49:38,069 --> 00:49:34,880
book

1265
00:49:39,510 --> 00:49:38,079
uh her her current uh netflix series

1266
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:39,520
berkeley's a friend of mine

1267
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:41,280
she pronounces her name kane for some

1268
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:50,470
she wrote a book called uh

1269
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:53,680
surviving death and it is about the most

1270
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:55,040
comprehensive book

1271
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:58,880
i've ever read anybody over 60 should

1272
00:50:03,349 --> 00:50:00,559
read it because it's kind of a

1273
00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:03,359
kind of a hopeful message and that on

1274
00:50:07,750 --> 00:50:04,640
all these different levels

1275
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:07,760
you know there there is uh proof uh

1276
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:09,359
some of the most compelling stuff she

1277
00:50:13,109 --> 00:50:11,520
has to say by the near death ex

1278
00:50:14,630 --> 00:50:13,119
talk about us are the near-death

1279
00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:14,640
experiences

1280
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:18,160
and um a doctor named jeffrey long

1281
00:50:23,589 --> 00:50:20,880
who is an oncologist you know a cancer

1282
00:50:26,549 --> 00:50:23,599
doctor who's witnessed a lot of debt

1283
00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:26,559
and he started uh you know 20 30 years

1284
00:50:32,470 --> 00:50:27,440
ago

1285
00:50:35,589 --> 00:50:32,480
um keeping a journal and logging uh

1286
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:35,599
near death experiencers um you know

1287
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:38,240
what what they saw what they heard what

1288
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:39,200
you know what

1289
00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:42,240
their whole experience was and uh he's

1290
00:50:47,589 --> 00:50:44,480
written two books i've read them both

1291
00:50:50,710 --> 00:50:47,599
fascinating um

1292
00:50:51,910 --> 00:50:50,720
and uh like um there's another another

1293
00:50:55,990 --> 00:50:51,920
great guy

1294
00:51:00,230 --> 00:50:56,000
who is a neurosurgeon uh

1295
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:00,240
named alexander even alexander eben

1296
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:03,599
alexander is her last name and

1297
00:51:07,109 --> 00:51:05,280
he has one of the most incredible

1298
00:51:07,910 --> 00:51:07,119
near-death experience stories you'd ever

1299
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:07,920
want to

1300
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:13,760
is that in the back of incident at

1301
00:51:18,069 --> 00:51:14,800
devil's den

1302
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:18,079
i gave a an email address and i said

1303
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:18,800
look

1304
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:21,440
uh i'm not you know an official

1305
00:51:24,309 --> 00:51:22,400
researcher

1306
00:51:26,309 --> 00:51:24,319
and i'm not you know a doctor or a

1307
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:26,319
therapist of any kind but

1308
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:29,359
you know if you've had an experience

1309
00:51:32,390 --> 00:51:31,440
and you want to share it with me you

1310
00:51:34,109 --> 00:51:32,400
know email me

1311
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:34,119
i'll respect your content

1312
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:35,920
confidentiality and i promise i'll

1313
00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:38,000
return every email

1314
00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:40,960
well that was march 10th of 2018 and

1315
00:51:46,309 --> 00:51:42,480
since then i've received

1316
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:46,319
1400 as of this morning 1463 emails from

1317
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:48,480
people

1318
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:51,520
so big response yeah

1319
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:54,640
and you know what i did was i um

1320
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:58,880
i took a you know a play out of uh

1321
00:52:03,430 --> 00:52:01,200
david polite's playbook what i tried to

1322
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:03,440
do was organize these

1323
00:52:07,910 --> 00:52:06,480
and categorize these

1324
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:07,920
and see if i could pull some kind of

1325
00:52:14,069 --> 00:52:11,200
statistical um

1326
00:52:15,670 --> 00:52:14,079
something of value something uh there

1327
00:52:16,950 --> 00:52:15,680
had to be a threat of commonality that

1328
00:52:19,510 --> 00:52:16,960
runs through

1329
00:52:21,430 --> 00:52:19,520
some of these and what i found was out

1330
00:52:24,950 --> 00:52:21,440
of 1400

1331
00:52:27,109 --> 00:52:24,960
i had a group of about 400 that really

1332
00:52:28,790 --> 00:52:27,119
really sounded very credible

1333
00:52:31,109 --> 00:52:28,800
and it was kind of an interesting

1334
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:31,119
dynamic uh

1335
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:34,880
most of the people were over age 50.

1336
00:52:38,870 --> 00:52:37,200
and what i did was i took those 400 and

1337
00:52:41,270 --> 00:52:38,880
i studied them and i looked for things

1338
00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:41,280
that they shared in common

1339
00:52:47,589 --> 00:52:44,960
uh and i'll discuss that in a second i i

1340
00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:47,599
distilled that 400 down to 50 of the

1341
00:52:51,430 --> 00:52:48,960
best

1342
00:52:53,270 --> 00:52:51,440
and then i emailed all those people and

1343
00:52:54,870 --> 00:52:53,280
said i'd like to use your story my book

1344
00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:54,880
may i do you want me to use your real

1345
00:53:00,150 --> 00:52:56,960
name or change your name and

1346
00:53:03,030 --> 00:53:00,160
um tried to do both well we did

1347
00:53:05,589 --> 00:53:03,040
well we did both we did uh uh internet

1348
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:05,599
conversation by email and then uh

1349
00:53:09,670 --> 00:53:07,920
i i like to follow up and speak with

1350
00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:09,680
them all by phone

1351
00:53:13,109 --> 00:53:12,319
um because i it's a better way to assess

1352
00:53:15,670 --> 00:53:13,119
someone's

1353
00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:15,680
credibility i like to listen to the tone

1354
00:53:20,870 --> 00:53:18,720
and tenor of their voice and

1355
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:20,880
um you know it's not up to me to judge

1356
00:53:24,790 --> 00:53:23,040
anybody's veracity but uh

1357
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:24,800
you know i think i'm a fairly good judge

1358
00:53:28,950 --> 00:53:26,800
of people

1359
00:53:31,030 --> 00:53:28,960
so i distilled it down to 30 of the best

1360
00:53:32,549 --> 00:53:31,040
stories that these people sent me

1361
00:53:35,270 --> 00:53:32,559
and they're short stories they're only a

1362
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:35,280
five minute read a piece

1363
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:36,960
uh and they're in the back of this book

1364
00:53:41,990 --> 00:53:38,319
uh the reckoning

1365
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:42,000
and uh they're amazing and

1366
00:53:48,069 --> 00:53:45,119
and they cover all different uh

1367
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:48,079
facets of the phenomena including you

1368
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:49,440
know a woman wrote to me and said have

1369
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:50,079
you ever

1370
00:53:56,309 --> 00:53:53,280
the

1371
00:53:59,750 --> 00:53:56,319
experience

1372
00:54:03,670 --> 00:53:59,760
and abductees and ufo

1373
00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:03,680
people and i said no

1374
00:54:09,190 --> 00:54:05,839
and she says well think about it what

1375
00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:09,200
happens to people after they have an nde

1376
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:11,520
and i knew the answer to that having

1377
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:13,680
read leslie's book and a few others

1378
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:16,240
you know common reaction is that they're

1379
00:54:22,790 --> 00:54:16,880
changed

1380
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:22,800
and you know they're more

1381
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:25,200
they're more in harmony with their life

1382
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:26,000
they're more

1383
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:29,040
uh they're less materialistic

1384
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:31,359
um you know they're they're not afraid

1385
00:54:35,430 --> 00:54:33,119
of death

1386
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:35,440
and they uh they come away from it with

1387
00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:36,319
a new kind of

1388
00:54:42,470 --> 00:54:39,680
spiritual awakening and

1389
00:54:43,670 --> 00:54:42,480
you know kind of works that way for some

1390
00:54:47,349 --> 00:54:43,680
uh abductees

1391
00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:47,359
too and that they can uh

1392
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:49,119
well they'll come back changed i mean if

1393
00:54:53,510 --> 00:54:50,640
you're if you're a genuine abductee

1394
00:54:55,109 --> 00:54:53,520
and you can you you have a memory of it

1395
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:55,119
you are a changed person you're not the

1396
00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:57,200
same person that you were

1397
00:55:04,230 --> 00:55:00,960
um and just like the nde survivor

1398
00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:04,240
you know there's no doubt in your mind

1399
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:05,440
you know

1400
00:55:11,829 --> 00:55:08,880
that we're not top dog that

1401
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:11,839
you know in the nde experiences mind you

1402
00:55:16,789 --> 00:55:13,520
know they experience

1403
00:55:20,069 --> 00:55:16,799
um spiritual beings angels

1404
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:20,079
god perhaps uh and in in the form

1405
00:55:24,950 --> 00:55:23,520
that's that's you know consistent with

1406
00:55:27,670 --> 00:55:24,960
their beliefs

1407
00:55:28,549 --> 00:55:27,680
you know this non-judgmental loving

1408
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:28,559
person

1409
00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:32,400
entity um and you know a lot of times

1410
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:34,799
people have um

1411
00:55:40,789 --> 00:55:37,839
ufo other abduction experiences and come

1412
00:55:44,470 --> 00:55:40,799
out of it with a very positive

1413
00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:44,480
um perspective the changes there a lot

1414
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:47,760
that's right great example is

1415
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:51,760
young woman by the name of sev tak sev

1416
00:55:56,470 --> 00:55:54,880
uh and her last name is t-o-k

1417
00:55:58,870 --> 00:55:56,480
and that's not a pen name it's her real

1418
00:56:02,950 --> 00:55:58,880
name she's

1419
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:02,960
turkish and uh

1420
00:56:10,230 --> 00:56:06,640
she wrote uh she wrote an

1421
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:10,240
excellent book i got it right here

1422
00:56:17,109 --> 00:56:14,160
and she like me had actual physical um

1423
00:56:17,829 --> 00:56:17,119
evidence in the form of some strange

1424
00:56:19,829 --> 00:56:17,839
injuries

1425
00:56:23,109 --> 00:56:19,839
her book is called you have the right to

1426
00:56:26,870 --> 00:56:25,670
which is kind of funny but great book

1427
00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:26,880
title

1428
00:56:31,349 --> 00:56:30,240
the her experience with et was a very

1429
00:56:35,109 --> 00:56:31,359
positive one

1430
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:35,119
and changed her life for the better

1431
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:38,400
and it's kind of um

1432
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:41,040
a paradox and that some people have an

1433
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:43,359
experience with et

1434
00:56:47,589 --> 00:56:45,440
and come out of it for the better and

1435
00:56:50,069 --> 00:56:47,599
some people have an experience with et

1436
00:56:50,870 --> 00:56:50,079
and their life falls apart you know my

1437
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:50,880
friend toby

1438
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:53,760
uh slid into alcoholism and uh that's

1439
00:56:57,030 --> 00:56:54,400
right

1440
00:56:58,549 --> 00:56:57,040
you know he went from being a very

1441
00:57:00,390 --> 00:56:58,559
bright kid to you know

1442
00:57:01,750 --> 00:57:00,400
to not having such a good life very

1443
00:57:04,789 --> 00:57:01,760
common in this field

1444
00:57:09,190 --> 00:57:04,799
i found that to be kind of common

1445
00:57:10,950 --> 00:57:09,200
and i wonder why um

1446
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:10,960
let me if we have time i'd like to tell

1447
00:57:13,750 --> 00:57:12,480
you just a couple of share a couple of

1448
00:57:15,270 --> 00:57:13,760
those stories with you

1449
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:15,280
i would love that i was going to ask you

1450
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:17,040
the same thing yeah let's do for sure

1451
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:19,680
that'd be great terry

1452
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:22,240
the uh the first one i the first one i

1453
00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:22,880
did

1454
00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:25,520
uh was a 76 year old woman from

1455
00:57:29,109 --> 00:57:26,000
henderson

1456
00:57:31,030 --> 00:57:29,119
nevada now you know i

1457
00:57:32,309 --> 00:57:31,040
76 year old women don't wake up one

1458
00:57:34,069 --> 00:57:32,319
morning and say you know what i think

1459
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,079
i'm going to make up a fairy tale

1460
00:57:38,309 --> 00:57:36,559
you know you know i read this book i

1461
00:57:41,510 --> 00:57:38,319
think i'm going to pull this guy's leg

1462
00:57:44,390 --> 00:57:41,520
you know i i don't think that happens or

1463
00:57:45,910 --> 00:57:44,400
it didn't happen in this case

1464
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:45,920
she sent me an email and said look i'm

1465
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:47,680
76 years old

1466
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:50,799
my husband and i had an experience

1467
00:57:59,030 --> 00:57:55,680
in 1968 that i just can't reconcile

1468
00:58:02,230 --> 00:57:59,040
and her husband passed away in 1983

1469
00:58:03,750 --> 00:58:02,240
so she's the only surviving witness and

1470
00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:03,760
she says i really want to share this

1471
00:58:07,750 --> 00:58:04,240
with you

1472
00:58:10,069 --> 00:58:07,760
the world so

1473
00:58:11,589 --> 00:58:10,079
people know that this stuff is real and

1474
00:58:12,549 --> 00:58:11,599
that people who may have had a similar

1475
00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:12,559
experience

1476
00:58:16,630 --> 00:58:15,520
will know hey you're not alone what

1477
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:16,640
happened was

1478
00:58:21,829 --> 00:58:19,680
they lived in uh las vegas at the time

1479
00:58:22,950 --> 00:58:21,839
and her husband was a nephrologist a

1480
00:58:24,549 --> 00:58:22,960
kidney doctor

1481
00:58:27,349 --> 00:58:24,559
who worked at the hospital there in las

1482
00:58:30,789 --> 00:58:27,359
vegas and they had friends in reno

1483
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:30,799
and family in reno so you know

1484
00:58:34,630 --> 00:58:32,160
you know how doctors are i mean they

1485
00:58:36,069 --> 00:58:34,640
work 60 70 hours a week

1486
00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:36,079
but every month he had a four day

1487
00:58:41,910 --> 00:58:38,240
weekend once a month

1488
00:58:43,750 --> 00:58:41,920
and during that four day weekend uh

1489
00:58:45,190 --> 00:58:43,760
every every month they would make the

1490
00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:45,200
drive from las vegas

1491
00:58:51,589 --> 00:58:48,240
to reno spend time with their friends

1492
00:58:55,270 --> 00:58:51,599
and turn around come home wow and

1493
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:55,280
you know the ride uh up there and back

1494
00:58:59,990 --> 00:58:57,680
gave them an opportunity to talk and

1495
00:59:03,270 --> 00:59:00,000
have a dialogue catch up on things that

1496
00:59:04,870 --> 00:59:03,280
uh you know then a little young they

1497
00:59:05,910 --> 00:59:04,880
weren't married that long young couple

1498
00:59:08,789 --> 00:59:05,920
needs

1499
00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:08,799
they need to talk and uh and that gave

1500
00:59:12,630 --> 00:59:10,079
them an opportunity

1501
00:59:14,549 --> 00:59:12,640
so it was kind of a road trip exactly

1502
00:59:17,589 --> 00:59:14,559
they always stopped at the little town

1503
00:59:19,510 --> 00:59:17,599
of tunipa and she said that tunipa is

1504
00:59:20,470 --> 00:59:19,520
about the halfway mark marked about the

1505
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:20,480
halfway mark

1506
00:59:27,349 --> 00:59:24,480
to um to reno she said there was a

1507
00:59:28,230 --> 00:59:27,359
restaurant there called the stagecoach

1508
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:28,240
uh

1509
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:30,480
i talked to lorient fenton last night

1510
00:59:33,829 --> 00:59:31,920
who told me that she used to make that

1511
00:59:34,710 --> 00:59:33,839
drive off time and there used to be a

1512
00:59:37,030 --> 00:59:34,720
stagecoach

1513
00:59:38,710 --> 00:59:37,040
uh like a restaurant truck stop place

1514
00:59:39,349 --> 00:59:38,720
but she said she's pretty sure it's out

1515
00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:39,359
of business

1516
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:41,200
that's right uh but that's where they

1517
00:59:44,549 --> 00:59:43,440
stop uh every trip that they made they

1518
00:59:47,349 --> 00:59:44,559
would stop there and eat

1519
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:47,359
and you know fill the car up with gas

1520
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:49,040
and um

1521
00:59:53,589 --> 00:59:51,680
she said that they made their stop they

1522
00:59:55,829 --> 00:59:53,599
had a wonderful dinner

1523
00:59:57,510 --> 00:59:55,839
with gas in the car and then they hopped

1524
00:59:59,109 --> 00:59:57,520
back on the highway it's about nine

1525
01:00:02,710 --> 00:59:59,119
o'clock p.m

1526
01:00:05,270 --> 01:00:02,720
uh it's dark outside it's march

1527
01:00:07,109 --> 01:00:05,280
um and they're they're headed to uh

1528
01:00:10,309 --> 01:00:07,119
headed to reno

1529
01:00:13,670 --> 01:00:10,319
and she said that while on the way

1530
01:00:16,870 --> 01:00:13,680
um about 10 miles outside of

1531
01:00:19,109 --> 01:00:16,880
tunipa they saw

1532
01:00:20,710 --> 01:00:19,119
a glow in the distance on the right on

1533
01:00:24,789 --> 01:00:20,720
the passenger side

1534
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:24,799
where olivia was sitting and uh

1535
01:00:28,150 --> 01:00:26,640
they were curious and as they got closer

1536
01:00:30,789 --> 01:00:28,160
they could see

1537
01:00:31,990 --> 01:00:30,799
it was this and she said it's the first

1538
01:00:34,710 --> 01:00:32,000
time she ever saw

1539
01:00:35,910 --> 01:00:34,720
a store devoted to the holiday it was a

1540
01:00:39,349 --> 01:00:35,920
store

1541
01:00:42,789 --> 01:00:40,549
and she thought who would go to

1542
01:00:43,589 --> 01:00:42,799
christmas store you know 10 miles north

1543
01:00:44,870 --> 01:00:43,599
of tunisia

1544
01:00:46,950 --> 01:00:44,880
where there's nothing but sand and

1545
01:00:49,990 --> 01:00:46,960
sagebrush and

1546
01:00:51,670 --> 01:00:50,000
have it opened in the middle of march

1547
01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:51,680
you know there's this big neon light

1548
01:00:58,470 --> 01:00:54,880
above the store that says christmas

1549
01:00:59,990 --> 01:00:58,480
and there is uh you know a panel window

1550
01:01:03,190 --> 01:01:00,000
that runs the whole front of the

1551
01:01:04,630 --> 01:01:03,200
store and uh like a front porch

1552
01:01:06,230 --> 01:01:04,640
uh but it's sitting back from the

1553
01:01:07,990 --> 01:01:06,240
roadways

1554
01:01:09,910 --> 01:01:08,000
and she said that there was just an

1555
01:01:11,990 --> 01:01:09,920
insane amount of light flowing out of

1556
01:01:15,109 --> 01:01:12,000
the window

1557
01:01:16,710 --> 01:01:15,119
and that they could see they couldn't

1558
01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:16,720
make out figures but they could see

1559
01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:21,280
movement behind the uh behind the light

1560
01:01:24,309 --> 01:01:23,040
and she thought you know maybe maybe

1561
01:01:25,829 --> 01:01:24,319
they're open or maybe you know maybe

1562
01:01:26,789 --> 01:01:25,839
that's workers they're working on the

1563
01:01:30,230 --> 01:01:26,799
store

1564
01:01:32,150 --> 01:01:30,240
and she asked her husband to pull in and

1565
01:01:34,069 --> 01:01:32,160
he pulled over to the side of the road

1566
01:01:35,190 --> 01:01:34,079
the recreation directly in front of the

1567
01:01:36,950 --> 01:01:35,200
place

1568
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:36,960
and he says well i'd be happy to pull in

1569
01:01:39,990 --> 01:01:38,480
if you could show me where the driveway

1570
01:01:41,510 --> 01:01:40,000
is

1571
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:41,520
and then they noticed there was no

1572
01:01:46,230 --> 01:01:43,040
parking lot

1573
01:01:48,069 --> 01:01:46,240
and there were no cars there anywhere

1574
01:01:49,349 --> 01:01:48,079
and there was no road in back of the

1575
01:01:53,030 --> 01:01:49,359
place

1576
01:01:56,710 --> 01:01:53,040
it was just the store

1577
01:01:59,270 --> 01:01:56,720
and they pulled over and uh

1578
01:02:00,549 --> 01:01:59,280
he put the car in park and they sat

1579
01:02:02,230 --> 01:02:00,559
there and didn't say a word

1580
01:02:04,309 --> 01:02:02,240
and just stared at the thing and she

1581
01:02:07,589 --> 01:02:04,319
said that that memory is kind of fuzzy

1582
01:02:08,950 --> 01:02:07,599
uh that you know when i talked to her on

1583
01:02:10,230 --> 01:02:08,960
the phone i asked her do you think

1584
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:10,240
anything could have happened to you do

1585
01:02:13,670 --> 01:02:11,520
you think you could have suffered from

1586
01:02:15,349 --> 01:02:13,680
missing time

1587
01:02:17,190 --> 01:02:15,359
and you know she made a good point she

1588
01:02:20,309 --> 01:02:17,200
said well if i did how would i know

1589
01:02:20,870 --> 01:02:20,319
how the heck you know uh but she says i

1590
01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:20,880
i

1591
01:02:29,670 --> 01:02:25,920
on

1592
01:02:31,990 --> 01:02:29,680
was

1593
01:02:34,069 --> 01:02:32,000
uh but it made a huge impression on that

1594
01:02:35,109 --> 01:02:34,079
interestingly her husband remembers it

1595
01:02:37,029 --> 01:02:35,119
being

1596
01:02:38,390 --> 01:02:37,039
uh the building was made out of like

1597
01:02:40,549 --> 01:02:38,400
barn wood

1598
01:02:42,789 --> 01:02:40,559
but she recalls clearly being made out

1599
01:02:45,910 --> 01:02:42,799
of brick

1600
01:02:48,150 --> 01:02:45,920
but other than that their memories match

1601
01:02:50,710 --> 01:02:48,160
and there were twinkling christmas

1602
01:02:52,470 --> 01:02:50,720
lights wrapped all around the building

1603
01:02:54,549 --> 01:02:52,480
you know so there's like thousands of

1604
01:02:56,230 --> 01:02:54,559
them and they're all different colors

1605
01:02:59,270 --> 01:02:56,240
some are twinkling some are blinking on

1606
01:03:00,829 --> 01:02:59,280
and off some are just static

1607
01:03:02,390 --> 01:03:00,839
and she said the lights were just

1608
01:03:04,950 --> 01:03:02,400
amazing and

1609
01:03:06,069 --> 01:03:04,960
uh they scared it and then they kind of

1610
01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:06,079
snap out of it

1611
01:03:10,470 --> 01:03:08,000
and uh paul says well we're gonna hit

1612
01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:10,480
the road and uh he got back on the

1613
01:03:15,430 --> 01:03:11,200
highway

1614
01:03:17,270 --> 01:03:15,440
and they made their trip to uh reno

1615
01:03:19,029 --> 01:03:17,280
and i asked her did anything unusual

1616
01:03:20,150 --> 01:03:19,039
happen on your trip to reno and she said

1617
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:20,160
yeah as a matter of fact

1618
01:03:23,190 --> 01:03:22,000
there was something kind of odd and she

1619
01:03:26,390 --> 01:03:23,200
says you know this

1620
01:03:26,950 --> 01:03:26,400
this was all the time paul and my this

1621
01:03:29,270 --> 01:03:26,960
is

1622
01:03:30,789 --> 01:03:29,280
our time to talk and catch up on things

1623
01:03:32,950 --> 01:03:30,799
during this trip

1624
01:03:35,109 --> 01:03:32,960
and she said i fell sound asleep she

1625
01:03:38,870 --> 01:03:35,119
said you know i had a heavy meal

1626
01:03:41,990 --> 01:03:38,880
uh neither one of them had any alcohol

1627
01:03:44,710 --> 01:03:42,000
but she saw she fell fast asleep and

1628
01:03:47,829 --> 01:03:44,720
uh slept until they were at the reno

1629
01:03:50,470 --> 01:03:47,839
city limits and her husband woke her up

1630
01:03:52,950 --> 01:03:50,480
now she said that when they got there

1631
01:03:56,069 --> 01:03:52,960
they felt kind of out of sorts

1632
01:03:57,190 --> 01:03:56,079
um and they got there late but but it

1633
01:03:58,870 --> 01:03:57,200
was because

1634
01:04:00,309 --> 01:03:58,880
her husband got tied up at the hospital

1635
01:04:01,349 --> 01:04:00,319
he usually left like a three in the

1636
01:04:03,510 --> 01:04:01,359
afternoon to dodge

1637
01:04:06,069 --> 01:04:03,520
traffic but this time he got tied up at

1638
01:04:08,309 --> 01:04:06,079
the hospital till six o'clock

1639
01:04:09,829 --> 01:04:08,319
so they were late getting on the road so

1640
01:04:11,270 --> 01:04:09,839
they got to the hotel later than they

1641
01:04:12,630 --> 01:04:11,280
usually do

1642
01:04:14,470 --> 01:04:12,640
but she said you know we didn't hang up

1643
01:04:16,230 --> 01:04:14,480
our clothes we didn't do

1644
01:04:18,630 --> 01:04:16,240
any of the normal routine that we do

1645
01:04:19,750 --> 01:04:18,640
every month she said we just crashed and

1646
01:04:24,829 --> 01:04:19,760
uh

1647
01:04:26,630 --> 01:04:24,839
woke them up with a phone call following

1648
01:04:28,470 --> 01:04:26,640
morning

1649
01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:28,480
and she said you know yeah we both felt

1650
01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:30,240
like we had a mild case of the flu and

1651
01:04:34,549 --> 01:04:31,520
just kind of mentally fell

1652
01:04:36,069 --> 01:04:34,559
out of it for a day um but she said you

1653
01:04:39,270 --> 01:04:36,079
know

1654
01:04:41,910 --> 01:04:39,280
next day we were fine and

1655
01:04:43,510 --> 01:04:41,920
they they turned around and came back uh

1656
01:04:46,710 --> 01:04:43,520
on monday she said

1657
01:04:48,309 --> 01:04:46,720
and uh neither one of them talked about

1658
01:04:51,190 --> 01:04:48,319
this christmas story

1659
01:04:52,630 --> 01:04:51,200
you know uh you know again two people

1660
01:04:55,190 --> 01:04:52,640
witnessed something

1661
01:04:57,109 --> 01:04:55,200
uh dramatic and there's no discussion of

1662
01:04:58,230 --> 01:04:57,119
it and i found that to be one of the

1663
01:05:00,470 --> 01:04:58,240
commonalities

1664
01:05:02,549 --> 01:05:00,480
when people have a shared sighting you

1665
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:02,559
know just like my friend toby and i

1666
01:05:07,349 --> 01:05:05,520
you know we here we are we witness this

1667
01:05:08,950 --> 01:05:07,359
insane event

1668
01:05:10,789 --> 01:05:08,960
and normally when two people go through

1669
01:05:12,950 --> 01:05:10,799
a traumatic insane event

1670
01:05:13,829 --> 01:05:12,960
they can't wait to get together and

1671
01:05:16,710 --> 01:05:13,839
debrief

1672
01:05:18,630 --> 01:05:16,720
i mean you know yeah you know you want

1673
01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:18,640
to search for validation did you see

1674
01:05:22,230 --> 01:05:20,880
what i saw and uh can you believe that

1675
01:05:24,309 --> 01:05:22,240
this happened then

1676
01:05:25,910 --> 01:05:24,319
but no there was none of that with toby

1677
01:05:27,349 --> 01:05:25,920
and i we

1678
01:05:28,950 --> 01:05:27,359
the only thing that we really talked

1679
01:05:30,789 --> 01:05:28,960
about was uh

1680
01:05:32,390 --> 01:05:30,799
we made a pact that we would not admit

1681
01:05:34,470 --> 01:05:32,400
that we saw a flying saucer

1682
01:05:35,510 --> 01:05:34,480
or pardon me saw a ufo the size of

1683
01:05:38,309 --> 01:05:35,520
walmart

1684
01:05:40,549 --> 01:05:38,319
um because we knew the consequences in

1685
01:05:42,069 --> 01:05:40,559
1977 when you're on active duty we were

1686
01:05:44,230 --> 01:05:42,079
afraid that we'd be you know sent off

1687
01:05:45,990 --> 01:05:44,240
for a psych evaluation and

1688
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:46,000
you know maybe discharge from medical

1689
01:05:49,430 --> 01:05:47,920
reasons uh you know bad things could

1690
01:05:52,950 --> 01:05:49,440
happen

1691
01:05:54,549 --> 01:05:52,960
um so we agreed and but we wanted to

1692
01:05:55,829 --> 01:05:54,559
tell the truth the truth was important

1693
01:05:57,589 --> 01:05:55,839
to us so

1694
01:05:59,190 --> 01:05:57,599
we decided that what we would tell them

1695
01:05:59,990 --> 01:05:59,200
is that we went to bed feeling kind of

1696
01:06:01,589 --> 01:06:00,000
out of sorts

1697
01:06:04,150 --> 01:06:01,599
and woke up the next morning's sickest

1698
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:04,160
dogs you know that's true

1699
01:06:07,589 --> 01:06:05,760
uh we just kind of left out the part

1700
01:06:10,870 --> 01:06:07,599
about uh you know

1701
01:06:15,750 --> 01:06:10,880
seeing a ufo the size of a

1702
01:06:24,309 --> 01:06:15,760
walmart you know and being taken into it

1703
01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:27,190
well i lost you oh i'm here i'm here

1704
01:06:31,349 --> 01:06:29,039
yeah it's just so wild please go ahead

1705
01:06:35,670 --> 01:06:31,359
please go ahead

1706
01:06:37,349 --> 01:06:35,680
okay yeah i asked olivia i said um

1707
01:06:39,750 --> 01:06:37,359
so what did you guys do she said well we

1708
01:06:41,270 --> 01:06:39,760
went home uh but we didn't really talk

1709
01:06:43,510 --> 01:06:41,280
about it

1710
01:06:44,870 --> 01:06:43,520
and um like in the middle of the week

1711
01:06:47,990 --> 01:06:44,880
she says you know

1712
01:06:49,270 --> 01:06:48,000
this weekend uh it's not a long weekend

1713
01:06:50,950 --> 01:06:49,280
but we got a saturday

1714
01:06:52,710 --> 01:06:50,960
let's make the drive i don't want to go

1715
01:06:54,150 --> 01:06:52,720
to reno she said but let's just make the

1716
01:06:55,430 --> 01:06:54,160
drive up to tunipa

1717
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:55,440
because i want to see that christmas

1718
01:07:02,710 --> 01:06:59,280
store because when they drove home

1719
01:07:06,069 --> 01:07:02,720
from reno it wasn't there

1720
01:07:08,390 --> 01:07:06,079
holy moly and they were they didn't take

1721
01:07:08,789 --> 01:07:08,400
the time to stop and go back and retrace

1722
01:07:11,990 --> 01:07:08,799
their

1723
01:07:13,589 --> 01:07:12,000
it

1724
01:07:15,109 --> 01:07:13,599
but they were pretty sure they knew

1725
01:07:18,230 --> 01:07:15,119
where it was and

1726
01:07:19,670 --> 01:07:18,240
there wasn't anything there so

1727
01:07:21,829 --> 01:07:19,680
she said you know that christmas store

1728
01:07:24,150 --> 01:07:21,839
thing bugs me you know her husband

1729
01:07:25,510 --> 01:07:24,160
admitted yet bugged him too

1730
01:07:27,029 --> 01:07:25,520
and she says well let's go up there

1731
01:07:29,349 --> 01:07:27,039
let's just go up to tunipa and we'll

1732
01:07:30,870 --> 01:07:29,359
find it we put our minds at rest

1733
01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:30,880
and we can have a nice lunch there and

1734
01:07:35,510 --> 01:07:32,480
turn around come home he's like sure

1735
01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:35,520
great good idea so they did that and

1736
01:07:39,829 --> 01:07:37,280
they drove all the way to tunipa

1737
01:07:41,430 --> 01:07:39,839
and they thought they knew where it was

1738
01:07:42,069 --> 01:07:41,440
and they passed it and there's nothing

1739
01:07:44,069 --> 01:07:42,079
there

1740
01:07:45,750 --> 01:07:44,079
and they turned around and came back and

1741
01:07:48,470 --> 01:07:45,760
then went back a second time

1742
01:07:49,190 --> 01:07:48,480
and they went back three times expanding

1743
01:07:50,950 --> 01:07:49,200
their uh

1744
01:07:53,750 --> 01:07:50,960
search a little further each time to

1745
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:53,760
make sure they didn't miss it

1746
01:07:57,670 --> 01:07:56,400
and they were sure it's not there so and

1747
01:08:00,710 --> 01:07:57,680
that

1748
01:08:02,710 --> 01:08:00,720
process

1749
01:08:03,990 --> 01:08:02,720
and uh so they went to the stagecoach

1750
01:08:06,470 --> 01:08:04,000
restaurant

1751
01:08:07,670 --> 01:08:06,480
and they asked the hostess there they

1752
01:08:10,069 --> 01:08:07,680
said well when did when did

1753
01:08:12,309 --> 01:08:10,079
uh when did the city get get a a

1754
01:08:14,470 --> 01:08:12,319
christmas store

1755
01:08:17,590 --> 01:08:14,480
and the way the hostess said i don't

1756
01:08:20,309 --> 01:08:17,600
know anything about a christmas store

1757
01:08:22,229 --> 01:08:20,319
and uh you know lydia says well we saw

1758
01:08:25,030 --> 01:08:22,239
one we're sure we saw one

1759
01:08:27,030 --> 01:08:25,040
uh north of town and she says i don't

1760
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:27,040
know anything about that but you know

1761
01:08:31,669 --> 01:08:29,440
uh the guy that owns the business his

1762
01:08:33,990 --> 01:08:31,679
name is mr yang and he is here

1763
01:08:35,110 --> 01:08:34,000
he happens to be the president of the

1764
01:08:36,789 --> 01:08:35,120
chamber of commerce

1765
01:08:38,390 --> 01:08:36,799
why don't i have him talk to you if

1766
01:08:40,870 --> 01:08:38,400
there's anything new business-wise and

1767
01:08:43,030 --> 01:08:40,880
tuna but he's gonna know about it

1768
01:08:44,550 --> 01:08:43,040
so i said yeah that'd be nice so they

1769
01:08:45,349 --> 01:08:44,560
sit down they're enjoying their meal and

1770
01:08:48,630 --> 01:08:45,359
mr yang

1771
01:08:51,430 --> 01:08:48,640
stops by and he's very gracious and they

1772
01:08:52,789 --> 01:08:51,440
invite him to join them and uh you know

1773
01:08:53,269 --> 01:08:52,799
he gives them a brief history of the

1774
01:08:55,110 --> 01:08:53,279
town

1775
01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:55,120
and then they then they tell them their

1776
01:08:57,430 --> 01:08:57,040
story about the christmas story that was

1777
01:09:02,709 --> 01:08:57,440
there

1778
01:09:03,910 --> 01:09:02,719
she said he looked confused and he said

1779
01:09:07,189 --> 01:09:03,920
look if

1780
01:09:09,990 --> 01:09:07,199
if there were a new business in tunica

1781
01:09:10,470 --> 01:09:10,000
i would know about it uh even if it's 10

1782
01:09:12,470 --> 01:09:10,480
miles

1783
01:09:13,510 --> 01:09:12,480
outside city limits believe me i'd know

1784
01:09:15,269 --> 01:09:13,520
about it

1785
01:09:17,669 --> 01:09:15,279
and he says i don't know of any

1786
01:09:18,070 --> 01:09:17,679
construction made or any construction

1787
01:09:21,430 --> 01:09:18,080
even

1788
01:09:25,990 --> 01:09:23,990
and uh that was that was kind of when

1789
01:09:28,550 --> 01:09:26,000
they when the reality hit home

1790
01:09:29,510 --> 01:09:28,560
they encountered something you know

1791
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:29,520
might involve

1792
01:09:34,229 --> 01:09:33,359
some kind of influence from a non-human

1793
01:09:37,590 --> 01:09:34,239
source

1794
01:09:39,269 --> 01:09:37,600
sure her words um

1795
01:09:41,110 --> 01:09:39,279
and i asked her i said you know what did

1796
01:09:41,829 --> 01:09:41,120
this disturb your sleep and she said oh

1797
01:09:45,430 --> 01:09:41,839
yeah

1798
01:09:47,269 --> 01:09:45,440
nightmares about it

1799
01:09:49,189 --> 01:09:47,279
and i asked her to describe them tell me

1800
01:09:50,309 --> 01:09:49,199
what happened something scary and she's

1801
01:09:51,829 --> 01:09:50,319
like no it's

1802
01:09:53,349 --> 01:09:51,839
it's odd because it's frightening but

1803
01:09:56,709 --> 01:09:53,359
it's not scary

1804
01:10:00,390 --> 01:09:56,719
i don't know why it frightens me so uh

1805
01:10:02,790 --> 01:10:00,400
she said that she has dreams about

1806
01:10:04,550 --> 01:10:02,800
the christmas store and the shadows in

1807
01:10:07,189 --> 01:10:04,560
the background

1808
01:10:09,750 --> 01:10:07,199
and when she dreams about these shadows

1809
01:10:12,870 --> 01:10:09,760
she says she just flips out

1810
01:10:13,990 --> 01:10:12,880
it's just too much and she wakes up

1811
01:10:15,750 --> 01:10:14,000
screaming and

1812
01:10:17,510 --> 01:10:15,760
she said she has one or two of those a

1813
01:10:19,110 --> 01:10:17,520
year about the same

1814
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:19,120
you know about the same frequency that i

1815
01:10:24,149 --> 01:10:20,880
had mine sure

1816
01:10:25,750 --> 01:10:24,159
and she said that paul uh refused to

1817
01:10:27,189 --> 01:10:25,760
talk about it her husband refused to

1818
01:10:30,709 --> 01:10:27,199
talk about it uh

1819
01:10:34,070 --> 01:10:30,719
even when he got he got ill

1820
01:10:36,470 --> 01:10:34,080
and he died of cancer in 1983. and

1821
01:10:37,990 --> 01:10:36,480
uh but even like on his deathbed he did

1822
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:38,000
not want to talk about that

1823
01:10:42,390 --> 01:10:39,760
you know listen we're not talking about

1824
01:10:45,430 --> 01:10:43,910
he would have nightmares too but he

1825
01:10:48,950 --> 01:10:45,440
would never tell her

1826
01:10:50,630 --> 01:10:48,960
about his dreams and uh

1827
01:10:52,310 --> 01:10:50,640
the topic was just off the table for

1828
01:10:56,229 --> 01:10:52,320
discussion

1829
01:10:59,750 --> 01:10:56,239
wow she found that curious too

1830
01:11:01,669 --> 01:10:59,760
right so yeah so that's olivia's story

1831
01:11:04,070 --> 01:11:01,679
and like i said 83 year old woman i

1832
01:11:06,870 --> 01:11:04,080
don't think would make up a fairy tale

1833
01:11:08,390 --> 01:11:06,880
um so i i think her story is very

1834
01:11:11,990 --> 01:11:08,400
credible and you know they're credible

1835
01:11:14,950 --> 01:11:12,000
observers too you know he's an md

1836
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:14,960
she had a sometime some type of

1837
01:11:18,310 --> 01:11:16,320
humanities degree but she had a

1838
01:11:19,350 --> 01:11:18,320
four-year degree so she was an educated

1839
01:11:21,750 --> 01:11:19,360
woman

1840
01:11:22,870 --> 01:11:21,760
uh neither one of them had problems with

1841
01:11:25,030 --> 01:11:22,880
vision

1842
01:11:27,030 --> 01:11:25,040
neither one of them had any alcohol or

1843
01:11:28,470 --> 01:11:27,040
took any kind of medication

1844
01:11:30,140 --> 01:11:28,480
so you know they were qualified

1845
01:11:31,590 --> 01:11:30,150
observers um

1846
01:11:33,510 --> 01:11:31,600
[Music]

1847
01:11:34,950 --> 01:11:33,520
and you know she was insistent we knew

1848
01:11:39,430 --> 01:11:34,960
what we saw

1849
01:11:41,669 --> 01:11:39,440
so cool story it is amazing

1850
01:11:43,110 --> 01:11:41,679
and yeah another one oh yeah please

1851
01:11:44,630 --> 01:11:43,120
please yeah i was going to ask

1852
01:11:46,550 --> 01:11:44,640
is there any other ones you could share

1853
01:11:49,189 --> 01:11:46,560
with us

1854
01:11:50,790 --> 01:11:49,199
yeah yeah you know um this is probably

1855
01:11:54,870 --> 01:11:50,800
my second favorite

1856
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:54,880
um you know i was an assistant attorney

1857
01:11:58,390 --> 01:11:56,400
general for the state of vermont

1858
01:11:59,910 --> 01:11:58,400
and i lived in montpelier which is the

1859
01:12:04,310 --> 01:11:59,920
capital kind of the

1860
01:12:07,430 --> 01:12:04,320
center of the state um but

1861
01:12:08,950 --> 01:12:07,440
vermont's main area of business and and

1862
01:12:10,709 --> 01:12:08,960
commercial and everything else is where

1863
01:12:14,149 --> 01:12:10,719
the college is uvm

1864
01:12:16,070 --> 01:12:14,159
in burlington on on the west side you're

1865
01:12:19,270 --> 01:12:16,080
there near the lake

1866
01:12:21,830 --> 01:12:19,280
and uh so

1867
01:12:22,470 --> 01:12:21,840
i got a i got a email from this guy he

1868
01:12:24,790 --> 01:12:22,480
said yeah

1869
01:12:26,470 --> 01:12:24,800
you know i know that you were uh with

1870
01:12:28,790 --> 01:12:26,480
the ag's office

1871
01:12:30,390 --> 01:12:28,800
uh he said i'm from burlington you know

1872
01:12:34,229 --> 01:12:30,400
born and raised

1873
01:12:35,510 --> 01:12:34,239
uh he uh he said that he'd been a navy

1874
01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:35,520
pilot

1875
01:12:42,149 --> 01:12:39,760
and had his dream was to be

1876
01:12:44,470 --> 01:12:42,159
come a commercial airline pilot that was

1877
01:12:46,950 --> 01:12:44,480
his chosen career

1878
01:12:48,310 --> 01:12:46,960
and while he was in the navy after you

1879
01:12:49,750 --> 01:12:48,320
know four years or so

1880
01:12:51,510 --> 01:12:49,760
he said he thinks i think he said he

1881
01:12:53,270 --> 01:12:51,520
owed them six years uh

1882
01:12:54,630 --> 01:12:53,280
saying must have been you know rotc or

1883
01:12:56,790 --> 01:12:54,640
something i don't know

1884
01:12:59,110 --> 01:12:56,800
but he owed him six years and four years

1885
01:13:00,630 --> 01:12:59,120
into his career in the navy

1886
01:13:02,630 --> 01:13:00,640
uh he came down with some vision

1887
01:13:04,950 --> 01:13:02,640
problems um

1888
01:13:05,669 --> 01:13:04,960
that were you know they they couldn't

1889
01:13:08,070 --> 01:13:05,679
collect them

1890
01:13:09,750 --> 01:13:08,080
i mean you know if you don't put on a

1891
01:13:13,270 --> 01:13:09,760
pair of glasses and

1892
01:13:15,990 --> 01:13:13,280
and fly an f-18 so um

1893
01:13:17,189 --> 01:13:16,000
he was transitioned to a non-flight

1894
01:13:19,030 --> 01:13:17,199
status

1895
01:13:21,030 --> 01:13:19,040
and you know his his hopes for having a

1896
01:13:22,630 --> 01:13:21,040
career in uh

1897
01:13:24,149 --> 01:13:22,640
in the commercial airline industry were

1898
01:13:26,870 --> 01:13:24,159
dashed uh

1899
01:13:27,750 --> 01:13:26,880
so he got out of the navy and uh he and

1900
01:13:31,510 --> 01:13:27,760
his wife bought

1901
01:13:33,910 --> 01:13:31,520
a small business in burlington

1902
01:13:35,510 --> 01:13:33,920
and uh and ran that and you know it was

1903
01:13:37,110 --> 01:13:35,520
great they had a happy life they made

1904
01:13:40,470 --> 01:13:37,120
decent living

1905
01:13:43,910 --> 01:13:40,480
and uh she was uh

1906
01:13:50,270 --> 01:13:43,920
mid 50s i believe i'm going from memory

1907
01:13:55,430 --> 01:13:53,350
2014 and

1908
01:13:57,030 --> 01:13:55,440
he was he and his wife had gone out for

1909
01:14:04,790 --> 01:13:57,040
dinner

1910
01:14:08,470 --> 01:14:04,800
uh they each had a glass of wine um

1911
01:14:10,870 --> 01:14:08,480
granted he had vision problems but um

1912
01:14:12,550 --> 01:14:10,880
you know he could still drive a car you

1913
01:14:14,470 --> 01:14:12,560
know he could still put on glasses and

1914
01:14:16,630 --> 01:14:14,480
read a newspaper

1915
01:14:17,910 --> 01:14:16,640
um and there was nothing wrong with his

1916
01:14:20,470 --> 01:14:17,920
wife's vision

1917
01:14:21,910 --> 01:14:20,480
and you know they they saw they had no

1918
01:14:23,669 --> 01:14:21,920
more than one glass of wine

1919
01:14:25,030 --> 01:14:23,679
he could take any medication that would

1920
01:14:28,070 --> 01:14:25,040
interfere with their

1921
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:28,080
with their cognition or their eyesight

1922
01:14:31,350 --> 01:14:29,280
and they're driving home from the

1923
01:14:34,470 --> 01:14:31,360
restaurant and

1924
01:14:35,510 --> 01:14:34,480
the wife sees uh anyone's not only a few

1925
01:14:37,350 --> 01:14:35,520
miles from home

1926
01:14:38,790 --> 01:14:37,360
and they pull into a nice subdivision i

1927
01:14:41,270 --> 01:14:38,800
know the subdivision they pull into this

1928
01:14:44,470 --> 01:14:41,280
nice subdivision where they live

1929
01:14:48,149 --> 01:14:44,480
and so they're off the main drag

1930
01:14:50,550 --> 01:14:48,159
and the wife uh she sees this airplane

1931
01:14:53,990 --> 01:14:50,560
in the sky

1932
01:14:55,990 --> 01:14:54,000
and she's like hey check that out

1933
01:14:57,270 --> 01:14:56,000
that airplane it doesn't look like it's

1934
01:14:59,669 --> 01:14:57,280
moving

1935
01:15:01,110 --> 01:14:59,679
so he pulled the car around because he

1936
01:15:01,910 --> 01:15:01,120
couldn't see it from where he was to

1937
01:15:04,470 --> 01:15:01,920
orient it

1938
01:15:05,990 --> 01:15:04,480
so that this plane was within sight of

1939
01:15:08,470 --> 01:15:06,000
their windshield so they both could see

1940
01:15:12,229 --> 01:15:08,480
it at the same time

1941
01:15:15,910 --> 01:15:12,239
and uh he knew airplanes you know he he

1942
01:15:17,590 --> 01:15:15,920
if it flew he knew about it and uh

1943
01:15:19,189 --> 01:15:17,600
he said he was shocked to see that it

1944
01:15:22,709 --> 01:15:19,199
was what he called an

1945
01:15:25,030 --> 01:15:22,719
old school 727

1946
01:15:27,669 --> 01:15:25,040
and he said that he so he was sure that

1947
01:15:30,070 --> 01:15:27,679
because of the uh

1948
01:15:32,149 --> 01:15:30,080
on the tail there's there's an engine in

1949
01:15:33,830 --> 01:15:32,159
the tail and then one on either side so

1950
01:15:36,390 --> 01:15:33,840
it has three engines

1951
01:15:38,149 --> 01:15:36,400
on the tail on the tail section and

1952
01:15:41,590 --> 01:15:38,159
that's what drives the plane

1953
01:15:43,910 --> 01:15:41,600
mm-hmm and uh he said he was sure

1954
01:15:45,270 --> 01:15:43,920
that you know since the mid-80s that

1955
01:15:47,510 --> 01:15:45,280
they've been out of service there there

1956
01:15:50,630 --> 01:15:47,520
were nuns lying in the united states

1957
01:15:52,229 --> 01:15:50,640
right now again kind of a common theme

1958
01:15:55,110 --> 01:15:52,239
that i've seen again and again

1959
01:15:56,870 --> 01:15:55,120
is that the inside of a plane it's like

1960
01:15:59,270 --> 01:15:56,880
all the shades are up

1961
01:16:02,070 --> 01:15:59,280
and there's light pouring out of every

1962
01:16:04,950 --> 01:16:02,080
window including the cockpit

1963
01:16:06,390 --> 01:16:04,960
all of the appropriate lights are on and

1964
01:16:07,350 --> 01:16:06,400
now they're near an airport they're you

1965
01:16:09,350 --> 01:16:07,360
know there's an airport here in

1966
01:16:13,270 --> 01:16:09,360
burlington at the main airport

1967
01:16:16,310 --> 01:16:13,280
and um they uh

1968
01:16:17,990 --> 01:16:16,320
they they think that this plane which is

1969
01:16:19,110 --> 01:16:18,000
you know five or six thousand feet off

1970
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:19,120
the ground

1971
01:16:22,229 --> 01:16:21,520
and it could be that low on an approach

1972
01:16:25,110 --> 01:16:22,239
so that's not

1973
01:16:27,350 --> 01:16:25,120
in itself odd but what was odd was the

1974
01:16:30,149 --> 01:16:27,360
thing was just hanging in the air

1975
01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:30,159
not moving and because of the lights

1976
01:16:32,950 --> 01:16:31,280
being so bright

1977
01:16:35,189 --> 01:16:32,960
he couldn't make out any kind of

1978
01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:35,199
markings on the wings or the fuselage to

1979
01:16:39,030 --> 01:16:36,000
tell

1980
01:16:42,390 --> 01:16:39,040
you know was it was it uh you know

1981
01:16:42,709 --> 01:16:42,400
uh frontier airlines or southwest or

1982
01:16:44,229 --> 01:16:42,719
white

1983
01:16:47,669 --> 01:16:44,239
he couldn't he had no way to tell they

1984
01:16:51,590 --> 01:16:50,070
but he like you know this plane was

1985
01:16:53,910 --> 01:16:51,600
moving so slowly

1986
01:16:54,870 --> 01:16:53,920
that it would be well below stall speed

1987
01:16:56,870 --> 01:16:54,880
and he said his

1988
01:17:01,030 --> 01:16:56,880
his words were it should have fallen out

1989
01:17:05,590 --> 01:17:04,070
and i said okay uh and again we spoke on

1990
01:17:09,030 --> 01:17:05,600
the phone

1991
01:17:10,950 --> 01:17:09,040
and um he told me he said that

1992
01:17:12,630 --> 01:17:10,960
while they're watching this thing and

1993
01:17:14,790 --> 01:17:12,640
this this whole sighting lasts all of

1994
01:17:17,350 --> 01:17:14,800
maybe three or four minutes

1995
01:17:18,310 --> 01:17:17,360
uh while they're watching this thing the

1996
01:17:21,669 --> 01:17:18,320
plane comes

1997
01:17:25,990 --> 01:17:21,679
it's just it's dead pain dead in mid air

1998
01:17:27,750 --> 01:17:26,000
and then it starts to glide sideways

1999
01:17:30,070 --> 01:17:27,760
and then a few seconds later it

2000
01:17:33,350 --> 01:17:30,080
disappears behind trees and buildings

2001
01:17:36,709 --> 01:17:35,030
and they're both sitting there and she's

2002
01:17:37,270 --> 01:17:36,719
like that was the strangest point i've

2003
01:17:40,310 --> 01:17:37,280
ever seen

2004
01:17:41,430 --> 01:17:40,320
in my wife and he said yeah i i agree

2005
01:17:44,630 --> 01:17:41,440
with you

2006
01:17:46,229 --> 01:17:44,640
um and he said they got home and they

2007
01:17:50,149 --> 01:17:46,239
were a little late

2008
01:17:52,630 --> 01:17:50,159
um he doesn't know if anything happened

2009
01:17:54,709 --> 01:17:52,640
um but curiously they were missing about

2010
01:17:56,950 --> 01:17:54,719
30 minutes of time

2011
01:17:57,990 --> 01:17:56,960
so even even when they pause to stop at

2012
01:18:00,550 --> 01:17:58,000
this thing if you take

2013
01:18:01,669 --> 01:18:00,560
that pause into consideration the time

2014
01:18:03,750 --> 01:18:01,679
it took them to drive from the

2015
01:18:05,030 --> 01:18:03,760
restaurants of their home

2016
01:18:07,189 --> 01:18:05,040
they should have been home 30 minutes

2017
01:18:10,229 --> 01:18:07,199
earlier

2018
01:18:12,870 --> 01:18:10,239
and they were late so

2019
01:18:13,910 --> 01:18:12,880
what that's worth i think that's worth

2020
01:18:15,350 --> 01:18:13,920
quite a bit

2021
01:18:17,270 --> 01:18:15,360
i just found that to be a really

2022
01:18:20,310 --> 01:18:17,280
fascinating story because

2023
01:18:21,590 --> 01:18:20,320
um here you got two people again who are

2024
01:18:25,270 --> 01:18:21,600
confident observers

2025
01:18:26,870 --> 01:18:25,280
they see the same thing and uh

2026
01:18:28,950 --> 01:18:26,880
i'd just like to know what they saw i

2027
01:18:30,470 --> 01:18:28,960
think i know every we know what they saw

2028
01:18:34,070 --> 01:18:30,480
they saw screen memory

2029
01:18:37,830 --> 01:18:36,229
and uh wouldn't it be cool to know what

2030
01:18:42,149 --> 01:18:37,840
they really saw

2031
01:18:47,910 --> 01:18:45,430
behind the hologram yeah i did a little

2032
01:18:51,189 --> 01:18:47,920
research and he was right the last

2033
01:18:55,350 --> 01:18:51,199
uh the last 727 to fly

2034
01:19:00,229 --> 01:18:55,360
was owned by iraq and it flew in 1982.

2035
01:19:04,709 --> 01:19:00,239
wow that was the last flight of the 727

2036
01:19:17,270 --> 01:19:04,719
so this was 27 years later or something

2037
01:19:22,950 --> 01:19:21,110
that that's true it appears

2038
01:19:24,390 --> 01:19:22,960
it appears a lot of these screen

2039
01:19:26,709 --> 01:19:24,400
memories and

2040
01:19:28,070 --> 01:19:26,719
a lot of the the multitude of people who

2041
01:19:30,390 --> 01:19:28,080
have them

2042
01:19:31,830 --> 01:19:30,400
some of these people recently have been

2043
01:19:33,270 --> 01:19:31,840
would fall into the camp of

2044
01:19:36,709 --> 01:19:33,280
quote-unquote

2045
01:19:37,270 --> 01:19:36,719
you know the antenna people or people

2046
01:19:39,510 --> 01:19:37,280
who have

2047
01:19:41,110 --> 01:19:39,520
an antenna for this sort of thing

2048
01:19:43,030 --> 01:19:41,120
studies have shown particular people

2049
01:19:44,630 --> 01:19:43,040
have a greater ability to connect to

2050
01:19:48,390 --> 01:19:44,640
these others

2051
01:19:49,669 --> 01:19:48,400
do you find that well i your experiences

2052
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:49,679
in my opinion

2053
01:19:56,149 --> 01:19:53,040
are beyond fascinating and all of the

2054
01:19:59,669 --> 01:19:56,159
experiences that you have archived

2055
01:20:02,870 --> 01:19:59,679
and recorded and i think that

2056
01:20:03,430 --> 01:20:02,880
well i mean it's like the story you you

2057
01:20:06,629 --> 01:20:03,440
told us

2058
01:20:09,590 --> 01:20:06,639
i mean non-human source were her words

2059
01:20:10,709 --> 01:20:09,600
in one of the stories and these others

2060
01:20:13,990 --> 01:20:10,719
there's a very

2061
01:20:15,830 --> 01:20:14,000
possible e.t presence can we go and tell

2062
01:20:16,790 --> 01:20:15,840
our listeners where they can find more

2063
01:20:19,669 --> 01:20:16,800
devils den

2064
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:19,679
i i just saw that it was on audible uh

2065
01:20:23,030 --> 01:20:21,360
where they can find the reckoning

2066
01:20:24,629 --> 01:20:23,040
where they can go to your website which

2067
01:20:27,830 --> 01:20:24,639
is fantastic by the way

2068
01:20:30,629 --> 01:20:27,840
and uh more about you

2069
01:20:32,229 --> 01:20:30,639
oh sure yeah i'm happy to um yeah i

2070
01:20:33,590 --> 01:20:32,239
didn't give an introduction i usually do

2071
01:20:35,910 --> 01:20:33,600
that

2072
01:20:38,709 --> 01:20:35,920
well hello my name is terry lovelace i'm

2073
01:20:40,470 --> 01:20:38,719
65 years old i live in dallas texas

2074
01:20:43,189 --> 01:20:40,480
i retired early from the state of

2075
01:20:46,470 --> 01:20:43,199
vermont i was state's attorney there

2076
01:20:48,950 --> 01:20:46,480
worked on the board of medical practice

2077
01:20:50,310 --> 01:20:48,960
i got out of high school in 1973 and

2078
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:50,320
spent the next

2079
01:20:54,790 --> 01:20:52,320
uh six years in the united states air

2080
01:20:58,550 --> 01:20:54,800
force until 1979.

2081
01:21:01,110 --> 01:20:58,560
in 1977 my friend toby and i

2082
01:21:02,629 --> 01:21:01,120
made a camping trip my only camping trip

2083
01:21:04,629 --> 01:21:02,639
in my entire life

2084
01:21:06,790 --> 01:21:04,639
to uh devilstown state park which is

2085
01:21:07,430 --> 01:21:06,800
just across the uh missouri arkansas

2086
01:21:10,709 --> 01:21:07,440
border

2087
01:21:12,870 --> 01:21:10,719
northwest corner of the state and uh my

2088
01:21:16,790 --> 01:21:12,880
friend and i were abducted

2089
01:21:18,950 --> 01:21:16,800
and uh you know that that set in motion

2090
01:21:20,870 --> 01:21:18,960
uh

2091
01:21:22,790 --> 01:21:20,880
just a lot of just a lot of strangeness

2092
01:21:25,910 --> 01:21:22,800
a lot of strangeness but

2093
01:21:26,390 --> 01:21:25,920
i gotta say that you know i i as a kid i

2094
01:21:33,189 --> 01:21:26,400
had

2095
01:21:34,550 --> 01:21:33,199
1968 pardon me in 1963 when i was eight

2096
01:21:37,430 --> 01:21:34,560
years old

2097
01:21:38,550 --> 01:21:37,440
i was in my backyard playing and i saw a

2098
01:21:41,270 --> 01:21:38,560
ufo

2099
01:21:42,870 --> 01:21:41,280
and so you know i had experiences

2100
01:21:46,149 --> 01:21:42,880
throughout my life

2101
01:21:49,110 --> 01:21:46,159
my book is incident at devil's den uh

2102
01:21:50,070 --> 01:21:49,120
and that's on amazon and it's available

2103
01:21:52,390 --> 01:21:50,080
in kindle

2104
01:21:54,070 --> 01:21:52,400
uh and a paperback with some photos in

2105
01:21:56,709 --> 01:21:54,080
it and drawings

2106
01:21:58,070 --> 01:21:56,719
uh and then there's also uh i made an

2107
01:22:00,310 --> 01:21:58,080
audio book

2108
01:22:02,390 --> 01:22:00,320
uh by the same name incident at devil's

2109
01:22:04,390 --> 01:22:02,400
den i recorded it for better or worse in

2110
01:22:05,030 --> 01:22:04,400
my own voice because i wanted to tell my

2111
01:22:08,070 --> 01:22:05,040
story

2112
01:22:12,629 --> 01:22:08,080
it's great so that's on

2113
01:22:15,910 --> 01:22:12,639
amazon or audible and then the new book

2114
01:22:20,149 --> 01:22:15,920
is called double stem the reckoning

2115
01:22:24,229 --> 01:22:22,870
and paperback and kindle and i cut the

2116
01:22:27,910 --> 01:22:24,239
price of the kindle in half

2117
01:22:29,030 --> 01:22:27,920
it's 4.99 uh i haven't made an audio

2118
01:22:31,750 --> 01:22:29,040
book yet because

2119
01:22:35,270 --> 01:22:31,760
um i'm not sure it's safe to go to the

2120
01:22:42,149 --> 01:22:38,310
but i am going to do that someday

2121
01:22:44,229 --> 01:22:42,159
and my website is terry lovelace.com

2122
01:22:45,270 --> 01:22:44,239
uh you're welcome to email me if you

2123
01:22:47,430 --> 01:22:45,280
have any questions

2124
01:22:48,470 --> 01:22:47,440
my email address is terry lovelace at

2125
01:22:50,390 --> 01:22:48,480
yahoo.com

2126
01:22:52,629 --> 01:22:50,400
i answer every email so you're more than

2127
01:22:55,189 --> 01:22:52,639
welcome to contact me

2128
01:22:57,030 --> 01:22:55,199
i have a facebook page under incident at

2129
01:23:00,070 --> 01:22:57,040
devil's den

2130
01:23:01,030 --> 01:23:00,080
another one under terry lovelace and

2131
01:23:05,750 --> 01:23:01,040
another other

2132
01:23:08,629 --> 01:23:05,760
devil's den radio because a friend aaron

2133
01:23:10,470 --> 01:23:08,639
montgomery who's also an experiencer

2134
01:23:11,990 --> 01:23:10,480
she and i we're gonna we're gonna start

2135
01:23:15,189 --> 01:23:12,000
a um

2136
01:23:18,830 --> 01:23:15,199
a channel on ktra or kcor

2137
01:23:21,510 --> 01:23:18,840
or do a podcast or something but

2138
01:23:22,149 --> 01:23:21,520
we uh you know i've been telling the

2139
01:23:23,830 --> 01:23:22,159
story

2140
01:23:26,070 --> 01:23:23,840
and sharing it with people and i kind of

2141
01:23:27,350 --> 01:23:26,080
like after compiling these stories i

2142
01:23:28,629 --> 01:23:27,360
kind of like to be on the other side of

2143
01:23:31,030 --> 01:23:28,639
the mic

2144
01:23:32,629 --> 01:23:31,040
yeah but we're going to give that a try

2145
01:23:35,669 --> 01:23:32,639
very cool

2146
01:23:37,669 --> 01:23:35,679
i think that's a great idea i

2147
01:23:39,669 --> 01:23:37,679
i can't think of anything better than

2148
01:23:42,629 --> 01:23:39,679
that to be honest terry because

2149
01:23:44,149 --> 01:23:42,639
you have such a good way of explaining

2150
01:23:47,350 --> 01:23:44,159
everything to everyone and

2151
01:23:49,830 --> 01:23:47,360
it's it's so amazing how you've

2152
01:23:51,110 --> 01:23:49,840
archived everything your stories

2153
01:23:54,070 --> 01:23:51,120
spanning from

2154
01:23:55,030 --> 01:23:54,080
when you were a child and by far your

2155
01:23:57,990 --> 01:23:55,040
experiences

2156
01:23:58,790 --> 01:23:58,000
are beyond fascinating everybody really

2157
01:24:01,510 --> 01:23:58,800
needs to

2158
01:24:02,870 --> 01:24:01,520
uh purchase both books in my opinion a

2159
01:24:06,149 --> 01:24:02,880
blue and a red one

2160
01:24:07,990 --> 01:24:06,159
so blue pillar red pill there

2161
01:24:10,149 --> 01:24:08,000
great stuff terry i can't wait to have

2162
01:24:12,070 --> 01:24:10,159
you on again and your website is so i

2163
01:24:13,189 --> 01:24:12,080
can't you're so for real your website's

2164
01:24:15,590 --> 01:24:13,199
so great uh

2165
01:24:18,310 --> 01:24:15,600
thanks so much be blessed and i i hope

2166
01:24:20,310 --> 01:24:18,320
to talk to you soon my man

2167
01:24:21,910 --> 01:24:20,320
you bet you guys take care ryan look

2168
01:24:22,709 --> 01:24:21,920
forward to talking to you next time take

2169
01:24:27,590 --> 01:24:22,719
care

2170
01:24:30,950 --> 01:24:29,990
there it is ladies and gentlemen the man

2171
01:24:36,310 --> 01:24:30,960
behind

2172
01:24:39,830 --> 01:24:39,189
multi-decade plan we're talking

2173
01:24:42,629 --> 01:24:39,840
presidents

2174
01:24:43,990 --> 01:24:42,639
entering agreements this is huge stuff

2175
01:24:46,870 --> 01:24:44,000
delving into

2176
01:24:48,390 --> 01:24:46,880
space programs mental telepathic

2177
01:24:50,149 --> 01:24:48,400
communication

2178
01:24:51,430 --> 01:24:50,159
big deals that are provocative

2179
01:24:53,910 --> 01:24:51,440
intriguing

2180
01:24:56,229 --> 01:24:53,920
and the telepathic communication that

2181
01:24:59,590 --> 01:24:56,239
terry outlines in his book is a big deal

2182
01:25:03,030 --> 01:24:59,600
i find his experiences

2183
01:25:05,189 --> 01:25:03,040
are very conducive to someone who has

2184
01:25:06,070 --> 01:25:05,199
this ability to uh kind of know what's

2185
01:25:09,030 --> 01:25:06,080
going on

2186
01:25:10,229 --> 01:25:09,040
and i'm glad that terry is not too above

2187
01:25:13,430 --> 01:25:10,239
himself

2188
01:25:15,350 --> 01:25:13,440
to actually share what his theories are

2189
01:25:17,590 --> 01:25:15,360
a lot of people are vague and don't know

2190
01:25:20,149 --> 01:25:17,600
and and they're too scared to walk

2191
01:25:21,350 --> 01:25:20,159
out on a limb and say hey i don't know

2192
01:25:24,070 --> 01:25:21,360
but

2193
01:25:25,430 --> 01:25:24,080
if i were to guess it might be this

2194
01:25:27,510 --> 01:25:25,440
that's a big deal

2195
01:25:28,790 --> 01:25:27,520
especially coming from someone like

2196
01:25:31,510 --> 01:25:28,800
terry lovelace

2197
01:25:33,990 --> 01:25:31,520
please uh support him support his

2198
01:25:36,229 --> 01:25:34,000
website and support his literature

2199
01:25:37,189 --> 01:25:36,239
what he's done is nothing short of

2200
01:25:39,350 --> 01:25:37,199
amazing

2201
01:25:40,390 --> 01:25:39,360
can't wait to have him on again someday

2202
01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:40,400
until next time

2203
01:25:43,669 --> 01:25:42,880
keep your eyes to the skies feet on the

2204
01:25:55,350 --> 01:25:43,679
ground

2205
01:26:03,110 --> 01:25:55,360
but don't forget to take a look around

2206
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:05,990
come blast off in my time machine third

2207
01:26:23,669 --> 01:26:20,470
[Music]

2208
01:26:24,629 --> 01:26:23,679
blast off come blast off in my time

2209
01:26:37,730 --> 01:26:24,639
machine

2210
01:26:54,770 --> 01:26:37,740
third eye feeling like you need